From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: "Drew Adams" Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Graphical Kill node in Emacs manual Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2006 09:48:06 -0700 Message-ID: NNTP-Posting-Host: main.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: sea.gmane.org 1155919757 675 80.91.229.2 (18 Aug 2006 16:49:17 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2006 16:49:17 +0000 (UTC) Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Fri Aug 18 18:49:14 2006 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by ciao.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1GE7WM-0007ay-W2 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 18 Aug 2006 18:48:35 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1GE7WM-00008W-Eu for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 18 Aug 2006 12:48:34 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1GE7W9-00007k-Fe for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 18 Aug 2006 12:48:21 -0400 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1GE7W8-00007Q-KI for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 18 Aug 2006 12:48:20 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1GE7W8-00007N-Fb for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 18 Aug 2006 12:48:20 -0400 Original-Received: from [141.146.126.228] (helo=agminet01.oracle.com) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS-1.0:DHE_RSA_3DES_EDE_CBC_SHA:24) (Exim 4.52) id 1GE7cs-00043p-Ex for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 18 Aug 2006 12:55:18 -0400 Original-Received: from rgmgw1.us.oracle.com (rgmgw1.us.oracle.com [138.1.186.110]) by agminet01.oracle.com (Switch-3.1.7/Switch-3.1.7) with ESMTP id k7IGmI0J026922 for ; Fri, 18 Aug 2006 11:48:18 -0500 Original-Received: from dradamslap (dhcp-amer-csvpn-gw2-141-144-73-155.vpn.oracle.com [141.144.73.155]) by rgmgw1.us.oracle.com (Switch-3.1.7/Switch-3.1.7) with SMTP id k7IGmGJn019607 for ; Fri, 18 Aug 2006 10:48:17 -0600 Original-To: "Emacs-Devel" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.6604 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1807 Importance: Normal X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAQAAAAI= X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAQAAAAI= X-Whitelist: TRUE X-Whitelist: TRUE X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:58494 Archived-At: Perhaps this Emacs-manual node should be split, or its contents moved elsewhere (since it is small, and it would be smaller still, if split). Currently, these two very different topics are presented in this node: 1. Relation between inter-application clipboard and Emacs kill ring. Yanking between applications. 2. Delete Selection mode. I think #1 deserves more explanation, if I understand it correctly. The clipboard isn't even mentioned here. I think the clipboard is important to understanding yank interaction with other apps (I don't claim to understand that well, so I might be wrong here). If this does not need more explanation, then perhaps this paragraph could simply be merged with its parent node. If this is related to the clipboard, as I suspect, then perhaps it could be merged with node Clipboard somehow. Also, node Clipboard is in the Frames section of the manual (presumably because of its relation to X Window), not the Killing section, and there is no cross reference between the two. Surely, the clipboard is related somehow to the kill ring, at least conceptually? #2 should be separated from #1, IMO. People will not find #2 by trying to go to node `Graphical Kill', and #2 has only a limited relation to #1 - it seems added here only as an afterthought. How about creating a node that describes PC Selection mode and Delete Selection mode, and relates them to Transient Mark mode? IIUC, PC Selection mode uses Delete Selection mode (more or less), which uses Transient Mark mode. Users often ask about this sort of thing, and the answer usually informs them about all three levels, so they can decide what they want: a. Transient Mark mode to highlight the active region. b. Delete Selection mode to do (a) plus type-to-replace behavior. c. PC Selection mode to do (b) plus provide PC key bindings. [BTW - To me, (b) is a great way to use Emacs, and I would never consider using (c), PC bindings. I don't think of Delete Selection mode as emulating another editor; I think of it as the right way to use Emacs ;-). Too often, I think, D-S mode gets relegated to the margin of "emulation" modes, along with vi stuff and MS Windows stuff. I suspect more users would use it if they knew what it was. Personally, I think it should be the Emacs default behavior.] Also, in any explanation of Delete Selection mode, we should mention that this involves killing, not deleting, in spite of the name. That is, you can yank back the "deleted" text. This is not obvious, IMO. A better name for this feature would be "Type-to-Replace" mode or "Overwrite-Region" mode, but it's too late for that now. Perhaps someone more knowledgeable than I can make better suggestions here, but I think something should be done to better present the relations between: * the kill ring and the clipboard * Delete Selection mode, PC Selection mode, and Transient Mark mode If no change is made to this node, we should at least find a better name for it than Graphical Kill. You can't even use `i' to find this node by looking up `kill' or `clipboard' or `overwrite' (which is essentially what type-to-replace is: overwriting the region). How someone would use `i' to find this information on Delete Selection mode is beyond me, unless s?he knew that it was called `delete-selection-mode'.