From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: "Drew Adams" Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: RE: suggestions on toolbar icons Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2005 14:47:41 -0800 Message-ID: References: NNTP-Posting-Host: main.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0000_01C52B00.456098C0" X-Trace: sea.gmane.org 1111100498 19304 80.91.229.2 (17 Mar 2005 23:01:38 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2005 23:01:38 +0000 (UTC) Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Fri Mar 18 00:01:37 2005 Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by ciao.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1DC3zb-0008Uq-EA for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 18 Mar 2005 00:01:28 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1DC4Fy-0005Ze-Dy for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 17 Mar 2005 18:18:22 -0500 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1DC4FH-0005LA-13 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 17 Mar 2005 18:17:39 -0500 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1DC4FE-0005Jc-4y for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 17 Mar 2005 18:17:36 -0500 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1DC4FE-0005JZ-1p for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 17 Mar 2005 18:17:36 -0500 Original-Received: from [141.146.126.229] (helo=agminet02.oracle.com) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (TLSv1:DES-CBC3-SHA:168) (Exim 4.34) id 1DC40E-00017l-2B for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 17 Mar 2005 18:02:06 -0500 Original-Received: from agminet02.oracle.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by agminet02.oracle.com (Switch-3.1.7/Switch-3.1.7) with ESMTP id j2HN24C0026647 for ; Thu, 17 Mar 2005 15:02:05 -0800 Original-Received: from rgmsgw301.us.oracle.com (rgmsgw301.us.oracle.com [138.1.186.50]) by agminet02.oracle.com (Switch-3.1.7/Switch-3.1.7) with ESMTP id j2HMlirf016208 for ; Thu, 17 Mar 2005 14:52:57 -0800 Original-Received: from rgmsgw301.us.oracle.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by rgmsgw301.us.oracle.com (Switch-3.1.4/Switch-3.1.0) with ESMTP id j2HMlhY0026846 for ; Thu, 17 Mar 2005 15:47:43 -0700 Original-Received: from dradamslap (dradams-lap.us.oracle.com [130.35.177.126]) by rgmsgw301.us.oracle.com (Switch-3.1.4/Switch-3.1.0) with SMTP id j2HMlg7Q026836 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5 bits=128 verify=NO) for ; Thu, 17 Mar 2005 15:47:42 -0700 Original-To: "Emacs-Devel Devel" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.6604 (9.0.2911.0) In-Reply-To: Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAQAAAAI= X-Whitelist: TRUE X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org X-MailScanner-To: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:34686 X-Report-Spam: http://spam.gmane.org/gmane.emacs.devel:34686 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0000_01C52B00.456098C0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit OPEN is what the action is, not FILE. Sometimes (without file dialog or the Motif dialog), you can actually open directories with open. So FILE does not apply. Yes, despite the name, `find-file-existing' can also open directories. I still think the folder icon is misleading here. > Similarly, GTK_STOCK_FILE is a standard file icon. This _agrees_ with > my suggestion to keep this icon. It is not FILE, it is NEW we are using. And should be using, as the action is NEW as in new buffer, not FILE. Again, it is possible to make a new buffer without any file with this under the right settings. Fine. How would I know which you use, without checking the code? FILE and NEW are _identical_ icons; they are both standard file icons. So, what is FILE for? Is it perhaps for opening an existing file? It is normal that the two actions "open a new file" and "open an existing file" have similar icons - that's just what I was suggesting we need. Similar, yes; identical, no. File, yes (for both); folder, no. > Are you sure that GTK_STOCK_OPEN is > intended for files, not for directories? it is indeed used for opening existing files. OK. Too bad. > if you are going to use GNOME as a litmus test, then why not > be consistent and use GTK_STOCK_GOTO_TOP instead of GTK_STOCK_HOME for > Info's Top? Likewise, why not use GTK_STOCK_GO_BACK for Back (which is, > presumably, chronological) - as in Web browsers? Why use the GNOME > undo/redo icon (GTK_STOCK_REDO) for Back and Forward? HOME was used because previous Emacs versions use HOME from GTK 1.x. Legacy. BACK is used in info, I presume that is what you mean. Are you suggesting BACK for two actions? I said "why not use GTK_STOCK_GO_BACK for Back (which is, presumably, chronological)." It is used in Info for Previous, not for chronological Back. I already pointed out that it is _not_ good to use undo/redo for chronological moves. The previous version of Emacs used redo/undo, so we keep that. Legacy. Are we tied to legacy as well as to GNOME? And if (as is the case here) they happen to conflict? Apparently legacy wins. To be clear: _IF_ we are to be consistent in adherence to GNOME, then we should 1) use BACK/FORWARD for Back/Forward (chronological moves), 2) use something else (not BACK/FORWARD and not UNDO/REDO) for structural moves, and 3) use TOP (not HOME) for Top. Hang legacy, for things like toolbar icons! > the international exit sign. Make that icon, so we can see what it looks like. Attached (google for "exit"). Also attached: the information symbol (google for "information"). Even countries that don't use international signs use these two in airplanes, airports, and such, so I can't imagine many people haven't seen them. Also attached: possibilities I mentioned for "Preferences" (Customize) and "New File". > "Quit" is clearer (and more common) than "discard". At this level, the > distinction between leaving the buffer intact and killing it is not > important - and "discard" doesn't help with this distinction anyway. It is very important. It is a great difference between just burying a buffer and discarding it. Of course, but it is not a difference that is reflected in "discard" any more than in "quit". If you really want to be a stickler about this, use "delete". 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charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Emacs-devel mailing list Emacs-devel@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-devel ------=_NextPart_000_0000_01C52B00.456098C0--