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Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: (emacs) Intro [was: Making Emacs popular again with a video] Date: Thu, 14 May 2020 04:18:50 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: References: <5230692c-c665-a330-7a12-e59fa25d97dd@gmail.com> <70bb51fd-447d-928c-4d69-1c9673a44471@online.de> <55fd40f2-0468-d724-425d-c28c9d17b301@online.de> Reply-To: excalamus@tutanota.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_20683_2009242379.1589422730871" Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="ciao.gmane.io:159.69.161.202"; logging-data="27841"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: Richard Stallman , =?UTF-8?Q?Andreas_R=C3=83=C2=B6hler?= , Emacs Devel To: Stefan Kangas Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Thu May 14 04:19:32 2020 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1jZ3TA-00079p-5i for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Thu, 14 May 2020 04:19:32 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:48284 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jZ3T9-0005aB-68 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Wed, 13 May 2020 22:19:31 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:41294) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jZ3Sa-00059x-5k for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 13 May 2020 22:18:56 -0400 Original-Received: from w1.tutanota.de ([81.3.6.162]:32934) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jZ3SX-0001W0-MN; Wed, 13 May 2020 22:18:55 -0400 Original-Received: from w3.tutanota.de (unknown [192.168.1.164]) by w1.tutanota.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id D924DFA00DD; Thu, 14 May 2020 02:18:50 +0000 (UTC) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; t=1589422730; s=s1; d=tutanota.com; h=From:From:To:To:Subject:Subject:Content-Description:Content-ID:Content-Type:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Cc:Cc:Date:Date:In-Reply-To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:MIME-Version:Message-ID:Message-ID:Reply-To:References:References:Sender; bh=YuXDgZUG5yps6B2xBviOZbVuFw9bNq1RBMSpnCAed1o=; b=OinL5217rE4UzwVpdPh16lyzK7NkDiWn8FXJ6G2BkzGzHovOPhJ6y6IMMXhf1Fgd vFdQG7q3AO7FnRuSAB1yXDBtfkUMx8vm6MU2DNrPyII0Tz0KzyMTm0RPiATXFhUYl0B s6cAIFmM9pZfP/DChCH4gj1MqV6vuSpJ9NgppbCoHLoVNRRW1wPW6qhPnb80WNxLtr9 EgedNym1BTeS1Y2tlyKMopmoNwGIRVJB/AQlxTBS0wf6qYueqLxr4Dmvn7iuaped/s1 k9UoTWkiT04H/ti5CHeDy2GKSuX3sPBe0XRpgfnYYjEP/YkfsXcRQPOs5vDwEDvANxo sANxNwvMiw== In-Reply-To: Received-SPF: pass client-ip=81.3.6.162; envelope-from=excalamus@tutanota.com; helo=w1.tutanota.de X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: First seen = 2020/05/13 22:18:51 X-ACL-Warn: Detected OS = Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Spam_score_int: -27 X-Spam_score: -2.8 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.8 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H4=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001 autolearn=_AUTOLEARN X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:250180 Archived-At: ------=_Part_20683_2009242379.1589422730871 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable May 13, 2020, 06:53 by stefankangas@gmail.com: > Richard Stallman writes: > >> The question is, is it worth spending a few paragraphs on those points: >> >> > You are reading about GNU Emacs, the GNU incarnation of the advanced, >> > self-documenting, customizable, extensible editor Emacs. >> >> When I wrote the first Emacs in 1976, these were exciting new advances. >> Most users had never imagined such features in an editor. >> >> Maybe today every programmer has seen such features elsewhere, and >> responds to that statement with, "ho hum." If so, maybe we should >> delete those paragraphs. >> > > I do think most of that introduction comes off as somewhat uninspired > and mundane if you don't know that backstory, such as: > > you can rebind the basic cursor motion commands (up, down, left and > right) to any keys on the keyboard that you find comfortable > > While some parts are more exciting: > > New commands are simply programs written in the Lisp language, which are > run by Emacs=E2=80=99s own Lisp interpreter. Existing commands can even = be > redefined in the middle of an editing session, without having to restart > Emacs. > > I think a rewrite would be in order. But it's hard to write such a text > well. > > Best regards, > Stefan Kangas > How's this for a start? + Welcome to GNU Emacs! + + An Emacs, short for "Editor MACroS", is a kind of text editor built + from the idea that each key calls a tiny program (or macro). This idea + proves powerful in practice, enabling far more than simple insertion + and deletion of characters.=C2=A0 With it, you can operate on words or + lines, sentences or paragraphs, even whole pages.=C2=A0 You can navigate + within or between documents, automate tasks, and control subprocesses; + all with the press of a key!=C2=A0 GNU Emacs is the GNU project's + incarnation of the Emacs idea. + + GNU Emacs is built for introspection and extensibility. + + "Introspection" means GNU Emacs has self-knowledge.=C2=A0 Every aspect of + the system is documented and, because of the Emacs idea, that + information is easy to access.=C2=A0 The documentation may be general, li= ke + this introduction.=C2=A0 It may be instructive, like the tutorials that + are included.=C2=A0 The documentation even reaches down to the source cod= e + itself!=C2=A0 All of this is right at your fingertips.=C2=A0 See Help. + + "Extensibility" means behavior can be altered and improved.=C2=A0 Users c= an + customize their environment, from keyboard shortcuts to color themes + and most everything in-between.=C2=A0 See Customization.=C2=A0 The extens= ibility + goes beyond simple customization: new commands can be created and + applied in real-time.=C2=A0 New commands can be bundled in packages and + shared with the diverse Emacs community. Most of the commands in Emacs + are written in Lisp, with a few exceptions in C.=C2=A0 See Emacs Lisp + Intro(eintr) if you want to learn Emacs Lisp programming. + + GNU Emacs is used by authors and researchers, as well as programmers. + It has seen active development for more than 30 years; it is a + heritage as much as a community project.=C2=A0 We love GNU Emacs because = we + feel that no other editing environment rewards sustained user + investment quite like it.=C2=A0 We hope that will be your experience, too= . A few thoughts: - The introduction in Emacs 26.3 is 306 words.=C2=A0 This is also 306 words= .=C2=A0 I propose any rewrite should also be ~306 words. - Extensible is more specific than customizable; if you're extensible, you'= re necessarily customizable, right? - As brought up in the "GNU Emacs Raison d'etre" thread, it appears "We lov= e GNU Emacs because we feel that no other editing environment rewards susta= ined user investment quite like it." =C2=A0I buried this in the last paragr= aph because it flowed.=C2=A0 It's an audacious claim; one I think GNU Emacs= upholds and a standard I think the community may implicitly support.=C2=A0= If so, it might be helpful to make it explicit.=C2=A0 Maybe that sentiment= should be front and center? - Aside from memory, these were my sources: https://web.archive.org/web/20000819071104/http://www.multicians.org:80/mep= ap.html#seciii https://www.iro.umontreal.ca/~monnier/hopl-4-emacs-lisp.pdf - Real-time editor is used differently here than it appears to have meant i= n 1976.=C2=A0 I have used it here as shorthand for "without having to resta= rt Emacs". ------=_Part_20683_2009242379.1589422730871 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
May 13, 2020, 06:53 by stefankangas@gmail.com:
Richard Stallman <rms@gnu.org> write= s:
The question is, is it worth spending a few pa= ragraphs on those points:

> You are reading= about GNU Emacs, the GNU incarnation of the advanced,
> s= elf-documenting, customizable, extensible editor Emacs.

<= /div>
When I wrote the first Emacs in 1976, these were exciting new adv= ances.
Most users had never imagined such features in an edit= or.

Maybe today every programmer has seen such= features elsewhere, and
responds to that statement with, "ho= hum." If so, maybe we should
delete those paragraphs.

I do think most of that introduction c= omes off as somewhat uninspired
and mundane if you don't know= that backstory, such as:

you can rebind the b= asic cursor motion commands (up, down, left and
right) to any= keys on the keyboard that you find comfortable

While some parts are more exciting:

New comm= ands are simply programs written in the Lisp language, which are
<= div>run by Emacs=E2=80=99s own Lisp interpreter. Existing commands can eve= n be
redefined in the middle of an editing session, without h= aving to restart
Emacs.

I think = a rewrite would be in order. But it's hard to write such a text
<= div>well.

Best regards,
Stefan K= angas
How's this for a start?

=
+ Welcome to GNU Emacs!
+
+ An Emacs= , short for "Editor MACroS", is a kind of text editor built
+= from the idea that each key calls a tiny program (or macro). This idea
=
+ proves powerful in practice, enabling far more than simple ins= ertion
+ and deletion of characters.  With it, you can o= perate on words or
+ lines, sentences or paragraphs, even who= le pages.  You can navigate
+ within or between document= s, automate tasks, and control subprocesses;
+ all with the p= ress of a key!  GNU Emacs is the GNU project's
+ incarna= tion of the Emacs idea.
+
+ GNU Emacs is built = for introspection and extensibility.
+
+ "Intro= spection" means GNU Emacs has self-knowledge.  Every aspect of
+ the system is documented and, because of the Emacs idea, that
<= /div>
+ information is easy to access.  The documentation may be g= eneral, like
+ this introduction.  It may be instructive= , like the tutorials that
+ are included.  The documenta= tion even reaches down to the source code
+ itself!  All= of this is right at your fingertips.  See Help.
+
+ "Extensibility" means behavior can be altered and improved. = ; Users can
+ customize their environment, from keyboard shor= tcuts to color themes
+ and most everything in-between. = See Customization.  The extensibility
+ goes beyond sim= ple customization: new commands can be created and
+ applied = in real-time.  New commands can be bundled in packages and
+ shared with the diverse Emacs community. Most of the commands in Emacs=
+ are written in Lisp, with a few exceptions in C.  See= Emacs Lisp
+ Intro(eintr) if you want to learn Emacs Lisp pr= ogramming.
+
+ GNU Emacs is used by authors and= researchers, as well as programmers.
+ It has seen active de= velopment for more than 30 years; it is a
+ heritage as much = as a community project.  We love GNU Emacs because we
+ = feel that no other editing environment rewards sustained user
+ investment quite like it.  We hope that will be your experience, to= o.

A few thoughts:
- The introdu= ction in Emacs 26.3 is 306 words.  This is also 306 words.  I pro= pose any rewrite should also be ~306 words.
- Extensible is m= ore specific than customizable; if you're extensible, you're necessarily cu= stomizable, right?
- As brought up in the "GNU Emacs Raison d= 'etre" thread, it appears "We love GNU Emacs because we feel that no other = editing environment rewards sustained user investment quite like it."  = ;I buried this in the last paragraph because it flowed.  It's an audac= ious claim; one I think GNU Emacs upholds and a standard I think the commun= ity may implicitly support.  If so, it might be helpful to make it exp= licit.  Maybe that sentiment should be front and center?
- Aside from memory, these were my sources:
- Real-time ed= itor is used differently here than it appears to have meant in 1976.  = I have used it here as shorthand for "without having to restart Emacs".
=
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