From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: JD Smith Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Moving packages out of core to ELPA Date: Sat, 17 Feb 2024 21:27:05 -0500 Message-ID: References: <86jzn3t7gj.fsf@gnu.org> <095EDE5B-128C-4110-805B-EE218DB9F79A@gmail.com> <86bk8ft4o6.fsf@gnu.org> <87cysuy1s5.fsf@yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 16.0 \(3774.300.61.1.2\)) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_FAE74198-1A56-46FB-ABBE-570953F7734B" Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="25073"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: Eli Zaretskii , emacs-devel To: Po Lu Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Sun Feb 18 03:28:09 2024 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1rbWuX-0006Mt-6j for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sun, 18 Feb 2024 03:28:09 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1rbWtn-00076a-HP; Sat, 17 Feb 2024 21:27:23 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1rbWtk-00076C-UW for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 17 Feb 2024 21:27:20 -0500 Original-Received: from mail-qk1-x72d.google.com ([2607:f8b0:4864:20::72d]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1rbWtj-0004On-I3; Sat, 17 Feb 2024 21:27:20 -0500 Original-Received: by mail-qk1-x72d.google.com with SMTP id af79cd13be357-7873eaa0ba2so118284185a.0; Sat, 17 Feb 2024 18:27:18 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20230601; t=1708223237; x=1708828037; darn=gnu.org; h=references:to:cc:in-reply-to:date:subject:mime-version:message-id :from:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=ph4UKZa5eoF2Wju2esMaHSHISiUUqYaecN5qeNNxbAw=; b=E0/lFzZAO4GBVt/rIN5jS+JH6OV5ttxZEMMcpOd/PSq5hT2EIV+SF5zTwHTXaKq8pQ Zo6hOtYAqLuC/reOog/K5laxZW+y1xs12wLYBMVygx4Hj983JZTymHKr2t/eenTgfmVM rllTtbN6WHu73Pb0yhYjDPiyYVJpJ2nw1Y5Wl8JZAM4LNpsLCuqbfskhJzK83fkE/bc1 0DbwOpnbexyVGyh0w0zgqeqZ1HM3WnVQpZLry0U+Y1dHF9u0BoPB7uwEE/2UFzFCvf+O bc6/go3Nyw6iOjG883bUggKsKGQpNMpJwzvkZK+c1C2liQMn/+l26224Jgfix5ch2euk UswA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1708223237; x=1708828037; h=references:to:cc:in-reply-to:date:subject:mime-version:message-id :from:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=ph4UKZa5eoF2Wju2esMaHSHISiUUqYaecN5qeNNxbAw=; b=QO6/QHBO0MW4Xm03zElbw6fBolq3ZggWLOLUMM6hGUiLsJRtA9iPXX7fC88nl7Qn8M mUiJjaDFOZVGw1Js5xbMtBiU9MyQkoh2ZtMRLlmVe+KJSiet1DSG6MZoKAGmtNXKMwb3 fmu1L89NL5E4AgGmFzu6Ap962hOyIH2s/1laLFl4QHD1EiNDCQwz5SO5m+684+nnDtFW shJlTTtnMc14CXeOgvx5N26+AclL2uoC407sRqMFB0wxJFhyNFsvw+VsJuUU2qgGOlSH NrQdp9Qw8JA2Kl7cUw3BvO+tn/moVLlJsR2UYPbDUXdm/3wGlAzHK/9bS0QhtviqhWNf ooUw== X-Forwarded-Encrypted: i=1; AJvYcCX26wHOQWkvUyreWuX8SqzjG8BDB6DkCnm8gRwmWQVnUaWyMPq86HnPwu+t6V+FsFE9dkfYA5Pk5d0kR+oMQ0HoSGI2 X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0YyCCIRMmIKL4QPfby8KMnuJYu6CDjrRURNJnWt4ocxtFle8IxZh knj21zHeE7FJKYC0n6E4nW+QndlCedCVeFOcr+6O+av6w11Ixu9bPyyQPZ4nZxs= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IE+0uglFiuK/oneq42A6RlGiFAOLXJTltakUzdyzX2CwRoFqXvUZKWEyLeTvGYnxtLprP1jPA== X-Received: by 2002:a05:620a:4483:b0:785:d568:9ce with SMTP id x3-20020a05620a448300b00785d56809cemr11484492qkp.7.1708223237630; Sat, 17 Feb 2024 18:27:17 -0800 (PST) Original-Received: from smtpclient.apple (cm-24-53-187-34.buckeyecom.net. [24.53.187.34]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id i17-20020ae9ee11000000b00783f4a4e07fsm1285049qkg.43.2024.02.17.18.27.16 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-ECDSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Sat, 17 Feb 2024 18:27:17 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <87cysuy1s5.fsf@yahoo.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3774.300.61.1.2) Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2607:f8b0:4864:20::72d; envelope-from=jdtsmith@gmail.com; helo=mail-qk1-x72d.google.com X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:316291 Archived-At: --Apple-Mail=_FAE74198-1A56-46FB-ABBE-570953F7734B Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 > On Feb 17, 2024, at 8:55=E2=80=AFPM, Po Lu wrote: >=20 >> In fact IDLWAVE does still work and is useful for a small set of >> users, it just does more harm than good in core, IMO. >=20 > Packages whose existence comes at the detriment of their host (Emacs) = do > not develop this trait over time. This strikes me as a very rigid perspective. In my view, the costs and = benefits of any capability of a system can ebb and flow over time, as = the context in which they are evaluated changes.= --Apple-Mail=_FAE74198-1A56-46FB-ABBE-570953F7734B Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8

On Feb 17, 2024, at 8:55=E2=80=AFPM, Po Lu = <luangruo@yahoo.com> wrote:

In fact IDLWAVE = does still work and is useful for a small set of
users, it just does = more harm than good in core, IMO.

Packages whose existence comes at the = detriment of their host (Emacs) do
not = develop this trait over = time.

This strikes me as a = very rigid perspective.  In my view, the costs and benefits of any = capability of a system can ebb and flow over time, as the context in = which they are evaluated changes.
= --Apple-Mail=_FAE74198-1A56-46FB-ABBE-570953F7734B--