From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.ciao.gmane.io!not-for-mail From: Jean-Christophe Helary Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Why are so many great packages not trying to get included in GNU Emacs? WAS: Re: Making Emacs more friendly to newcomers Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2020 08:45:43 +0900 Message-ID: References: <863691n4xl.wl-me@enzu.ru> <87imhw431x.fsf@yahoo.com> <87mu78huhx.fsf_-_@yahoo.com> <87k12bdgx7.fsf@yahoo.com> <87r1wi7a8o.fsf@yahoo.com> <875zdteybt.fsf@runbox.com> <87368wrvf5.fsf@yahoo.com> <86k126d83n.wl-me@enzu.ru> <83pnbyckvv.fsf@gnu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 13.4 \(3608.80.23.2.2\)) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="ciao.gmane.io:159.69.161.202"; logging-data="112287"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" To: Emacs developers Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Fri Apr 24 01:46:47 2020 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1jRlYN-000T6L-Qf for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Fri, 24 Apr 2020 01:46:47 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:45350 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jRlYL-00038V-Mb for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Thu, 23 Apr 2020 19:46:45 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:60548) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jRlXX-0002WE-KV for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 23 Apr 2020 19:45:56 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jRlXV-00022a-S9 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 23 Apr 2020 19:45:55 -0400 Original-Received: from relay2-d.mail.gandi.net ([217.70.183.194]:34991) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jRlXU-0001ly-W3 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 23 Apr 2020 19:45:53 -0400 X-Originating-IP: 128.53.235.90 Original-Received: from [10.0.1.13] (pl12634.ag0304.nttpc.ne.jp [128.53.235.90]) (Authenticated sender: jean.christophe.helary@traduction-libre.org) by relay2-d.mail.gandi.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 6D21040003 for ; Thu, 23 Apr 2020 23:45:46 +0000 (UTC) In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3608.80.23.2.2) Received-SPF: pass client-ip=217.70.183.194; envelope-from=jean.christophe.helary@traduction-libre.org; helo=relay2-d.mail.gandi.net X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: First seen = 2020/04/23 19:45:48 X-ACL-Warn: Detected OS = Linux 3.11 and newer [fuzzy] X-Received-From: 217.70.183.194 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:247643 Archived-At: > On Apr 24, 2020, at 2:07, Stefan Kangas wrote: >=20 > The reasons why package authors would not want to include it, on the = other hand, > could obviously vary. Some of the reasons I have seen are > unfortunately very shallow: >=20 > - Misconceptions about how hard it is to work with emacs-devel. That's something that documentation can fix. > - An unwillingness to assign copyright to the FSF, seemingly often = more due to > inertia than any principled opposition. It has been mentioned a number of times already. I think that the process could be streamlined (and there is a need to = check that with the legal team I guess). For one, the actually *submission* of the copyright assignment to the = FSF could me made to be as easy as a simple code commit, signed with = something like a gpg key or something. Once the developer has simply "pushed that button," the contribution = should be considered valid, and then eventually the developer receives a = PDF signed by the FSF to confirm the assignment. And that should be it (or are there cases when the FSF refuses the = assignment ?) > - Strongly ideological anti-FSF sentiments (often disguised as = "non-ideological" > or "practical"). Hahaha :) I'm not sure a REOPEN YOUR CODE meme would pass muster in our = times, but it seems to me that there is some overlap between populations = that reject the FSF "because freedom" and those who reject sanitary = lockdown "because freedom". But I won't err on that path any further :) > I mean, that's my impression of it, and I'm not pretending that this = list is > exhaustive or even generally correct. I think point 1 and 2 are the best the FSF/GNU could do. > But maybe we should think about how we can argue our case more = strongly, and > clear up at least some of the misconceptions. For example, we could = make > additions to the Emacs Lisp manual on why one would want to push to = have their > package included. We could also explain that they can have their code = in GNU > ELPA, or even GNU Emacs, and host a development repository anywhere > they like, etc. Excellent !!! Yes, and the emacs site too ! Jean-Christophe Helary ----------------------------------------------- http://mac4translators.blogspot.com @brandelune