From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: main.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: "Drew Adams" Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: RE: pop-up tool-bar Date: Fri, 8 Oct 2004 17:46:14 -0700 Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Message-ID: References: NNTP-Posting-Host: deer.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: sea.gmane.org 1097283028 5670 80.91.229.6 (9 Oct 2004 00:50:28 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 9 Oct 2004 00:50:28 +0000 (UTC) Cc: Miguel Frasson , Emacs-Devel Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sat Oct 09 02:50:15 2004 Return-path: Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by deer.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CG5R8-0007Pz-00 for ; Sat, 09 Oct 2004 02:50:15 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CG5Xw-0001qk-Vn for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 08 Oct 2004 20:57:16 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.33) id 1CG5Xk-0001pK-Bm for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 08 Oct 2004 20:57:04 -0400 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.33) id 1CG5Xj-0001p4-Rc for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 08 Oct 2004 20:57:04 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CG5Xj-0001om-OL for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 08 Oct 2004 20:57:03 -0400 Original-Received: from [141.146.126.231] (helo=agminet04.oracle.com) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (TLSv1:DES-CBC3-SHA:168) (Exim 4.34) id 1CG5QZ-0001wD-1f for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 08 Oct 2004 20:49:39 -0400 Original-Received: from rgmgw1.us.oracle.com (rgmgw1.us.oracle.com [138.1.191.10]) by agminet04.oracle.com (Switch-3.1.4/Switch-3.1.0) with ESMTP id i990kNxs025441; Fri, 8 Oct 2004 17:46:23 -0700 Original-Received: from rgmgw1.us.oracle.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by rgmgw1.us.oracle.com (Switch-3.1.4/Switch-3.1.0) with ESMTP id i990kMrY013146; Fri, 8 Oct 2004 18:46:22 -0600 Original-Received: from dradamslap (dhcp-amer-csvpn-gw1-141-144-69-154.vpn.oracle.com [141.144.69.154]) by rgmgw1.us.oracle.com (Switch-3.1.4/Switch-3.1.0) with SMTP id i990kKAx013093; Fri, 8 Oct 2004 18:46:20 -0600 Original-To: "Stefan Monnier" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.6604 (9.0.2911.0) Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: main.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:28116 X-Report-Spam: http://spam.gmane.org/gmane.emacs.devel:28116 Sigh. I didn't ask you to be diplomatic. Diplomacy I don't need. I asked you to be specific. I would like to see specific reports of pbs, before we start envisioning solutions to hypothetical pbs. In other words, breaking the code would be useful: show some specific pbs you encounter. Pound on it; it's just code. Don't get me wrong. I'm not pushing away, for all time, any abstract argument about possible future pbs such as potential "changes to the scrolling behavior", or principles like ~avoid/prevent pbs instead of undoing/reverting them~, or discussions of relative advantages of different design approaches. I hear what you're saying, and I agree with much of it. I'd just like to _first_ address what this code does and what concrete problems it has (now). As I said, I'm not attached to the design or the implementation of this feature; I'm promoting the feature, not the code. Before anyone (I, anyway) spends energy redesigning or reimplementing, however, let's at least see what this does, concretely. Beyond finding specific pbs, the reason I'd like people to try it is to see if such a feature (a pop-up tool bar) is something we want to add to Emacs, regardless of its implementation. - Drew -----Original Message-----Stefan Monnier > Abstractly name-calling the code or the UI doesn't help, I think. > Please be specific. OK, you're right, I'm sorry, I should have been more diplomatic. All the suggestion I can think of is to try and remove the tool-bar from a timer function or from a post-command-hook so that it happens at a moment of relative quietness. Basically my suggestion decomposed in two parts: 1 - use post-command-hook in place of read-event to wait for the next event. 2 - use post-command-hook to delay the "remove tool-bar" to after the next command is executed. I think point 2 is the one that holds promise of solving your problem (tho it'll probably come with its own set of problems).