From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: main.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: "Drew Adams" Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: RE: not too happy with Emacs 21 vertical-line dragging when scrollbars present Date: Thu, 7 Oct 2004 10:16:16 -0700 Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Message-ID: References: NNTP-Posting-Host: deer.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: sea.gmane.org 1097169440 22298 80.91.229.6 (7 Oct 2004 17:17:20 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 7 Oct 2004 17:17:20 +0000 (UTC) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Thu Oct 07 19:17:13 2004 Return-path: Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by deer.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CFbtA-0006aN-00 for ; Thu, 07 Oct 2004 19:17:12 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CFbzs-00060A-7m for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 07 Oct 2004 13:24:08 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.33) id 1CFbzi-0005yG-00 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 07 Oct 2004 13:23:58 -0400 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.33) id 1CFbzh-0005xq-3K for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 07 Oct 2004 13:23:57 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CFbzg-0005xX-UC for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 07 Oct 2004 13:23:56 -0400 Original-Received: from [141.146.126.229] (helo=agminet02.oracle.com) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (TLSv1:DES-CBC3-SHA:168) (Exim 4.34) id 1CFbsV-0008Nu-RV; Thu, 07 Oct 2004 13:16:32 -0400 Original-Received: from rgmgw2.us.oracle.com (rgmgw2.us.oracle.com [138.1.191.11]) by agminet02.oracle.com (Switch-3.1.4/Switch-3.1.0) with ESMTP id i97HGHQt015159; Thu, 7 Oct 2004 10:16:19 -0700 Original-Received: from rgmgw2.us.oracle.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by rgmgw2.us.oracle.com (Switch-3.1.4/Switch-3.1.0) with ESMTP id i97HGHHL023921; Thu, 7 Oct 2004 11:16:17 -0600 Original-Received: from dradamslap (dradams-lap.us.oracle.com [130.35.177.126]) by rgmgw2.us.oracle.com (Switch-3.1.4/Switch-3.1.0) with SMTP id i97HGGAF023913; Thu, 7 Oct 2004 11:16:17 -0600 Original-To: "Kim F. Storm" , X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.6604 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: main.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:28045 X-Report-Spam: http://spam.gmane.org/gmane.emacs.devel:28045 I don't want to stir this pot much more, but, for clarification: - I thought that Kim's original text, quoted by Richard, was talking about letting you drag the scroll-bar itself, not dragging below it on the mode-line. Is that right? - I thought that Richard's reply was taking about this thin vertical strip that Kim proposed perhaps adding between windows. Is that right? - If so, then I don't understand Kim's reply, saying that we already have such a feature - that it's easy to use "that thin line" to drag. Is the thin line in question the current thin line between _mode-lines_, or the tiny area between _windows_ that Kim proposed adding? To me, needing to mouse-over the scroll-bar to get the drag handle would be OK. The scroll-bar is big, obvious, and conceptually that's just what you want to do: drag the scroll-bar. Needing to mouse-over to find the existing tiny thin line between _mode-lines_, however, is not good. Intuitively, you don't go mousing around between two mode-lines to find where to drag the scroll-bar. So, just what thin, vertical rectangle are we talking about here: a potential one to be added between windows or the existing one between mode-lines? -- To speak to a different part of this subject, Richard said this: It would be hard to do it at the right using mode-line-format. It would be easy to add a new feature that would override part of the mode line at the right when appropriate. If I understand this correctly, he is saying that, in effect, that we could get back the small, visible drag-handle square beneath the scroll-bar that we had in Emacs 20. That would be good. If, alternatively, a way could be found to let users drag the scroll-bar itself, that would be even better. - Drew -----Original Message----- From: Kim F. Storm [mailto:storm@cua.dk] Richard Stallman writes: > It would be much better if we could find a way to just drag the > scroll-bar. > > Dragging in the scroll bar has another meaning. > > One way would be to always make a tiny area between windows that you > could drag. But unless we do it by reducing the qscroll bar width, > that would take away space that is now used for text display. > > We DID have a tiny area, at the bottom of the scroll bar. Drew is > complaining that we got rid of it. It is much easier to use a square > than a very thin rectangle. It is hard to put the mouse on the > latter. That's not correct. It is easy to put the cursor on that tiny line! The code uses a relaxed check so that if the mouse is within ONE COLUMN on either side of the line, the cursor changes to the <-> drag cursor. So there is already a virtual block area there which is TWO COLUMS wide there. > > It is much harder (impossible) to make a drag-able area to the right > of the modeline, as there is no fixed right edge of the modeline at the > lisp level [the modeline is simply truncated by redisplay]. > > It would be hard to do it at the right using mode-line-format. > It would be easy to add a new feature that would override part > of the mode line at the right when appropriate. Personally, I see no reason to make that explicitly stand out more than it already does...