From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: main.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: "Drew Adams" Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: RE: not too happy with Emacs 21 vertical-line dragging when scrollbars present Date: Mon, 4 Oct 2004 19:01:33 -0700 Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Message-ID: References: NNTP-Posting-Host: deer.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: sea.gmane.org 1096941735 19101 80.91.229.6 (5 Oct 2004 02:02:15 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 5 Oct 2004 02:02:15 +0000 (UTC) Cc: rms@gnu.org, emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Tue Oct 05 04:02:02 2004 Return-path: Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by deer.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CEeeQ-0008DW-00 for ; Tue, 05 Oct 2004 04:02:02 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CEel2-0000oV-9P for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 04 Oct 2004 22:08:52 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.33) id 1CEeks-0000oG-MV for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 04 Oct 2004 22:08:42 -0400 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.33) id 1CEekq-0000nQ-Dy for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 04 Oct 2004 22:08:40 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CEekq-0000nG-9Y for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 04 Oct 2004 22:08:40 -0400 Original-Received: from [141.146.126.231] (helo=agminet04.oracle.com) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (TLSv1:DES-CBC3-SHA:168) (Exim 4.34) id 1CEee2-00040T-D2; Mon, 04 Oct 2004 22:01:38 -0400 Original-Received: from rgmgw3.us.oracle.com (rgmgw3.us.oracle.com [138.1.191.12]) by agminet04.oracle.com (Switch-3.1.4/Switch-3.1.0) with ESMTP id i9521aG6006690; Mon, 4 Oct 2004 19:01:36 -0700 Original-Received: from rgmgw3.us.oracle.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by rgmgw3.us.oracle.com (Switch-3.1.4/Switch-3.1.0) with ESMTP id i9521ZaA027895; Mon, 4 Oct 2004 20:01:36 -0600 Original-Received: from dradamslap (dhcp-amer-csvpn-gw2-141-144-81-47.vpn.oracle.com [141.144.81.47]) by rgmgw3.us.oracle.com (Switch-3.1.4/Switch-3.1.0) with SMTP id i9521ZhD027872; Mon, 4 Oct 2004 20:01:35 -0600 Original-To: "Miles Bader" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.6604 (9.0.2911.0) X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 In-Reply-To: Importance: Normal X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: main.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:27914 X-Report-Spam: http://spam.gmane.org/gmane.emacs.devel:27914 I'm open wrt what symbol to use, and I'm not arguing that it be obtrusive. I don't think we disagree. My question was really about how to do this. I have no experience with the new mode line or using bitmaps etc. I'll consult the Emacs doc (when I get around to this), but if someone has a pointer or two now, it would be appreciated. - Drew -----Original Message----- From: Miles Bader [mailto:miles@lsi.nec.co.jp] Sent: Monday, October 04, 2004 6:33 PM To: Drew Adams Cc: rms@gnu.org; emacs-devel@gnu.org Subject: Re: not too happy with Emacs 21 vertical-line dragging when scrollbars present "Drew Adams" writes: > The idea is to have something that visually indicates what this small spot > is for. Are you suggesting a different glyph (fine) or none at all? Or what? I don't know; I'm mainly concerned that it not draw attention to itself. A different glyph might be suitable, but at least on my system, the drag cursor is quite large and noticeable. I don't think that it's easy to get cursor glyphs from X, so I guess it'd have to be a custom bitmap anyway. > Let see ... something that no one can see has rarely been used... > Can you say "self-fulfilling retro-prophecy"? It doesn't matter. This feature is not so important that it's worth making general emacs usage worse to "advertise it"; if it's useful, people will find it via documentation (incl. tool-tips) and word of mouth anyway. Of course, it would be best if there's a compromise: For instance, a much lighter-weight version of the usual drag cursor, or something that looks like the sort of "grab-handle" Gnome themes usually use.