From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: main.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: "Drew Adams" Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: RE: Getting more info on a variable in Customize buffers Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2005 10:12:45 -0800 Message-ID: References: <200501041555.j04FtG815571@raven.dms.auburn.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: deer.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: sea.gmane.org 1104863783 8339 80.91.229.6 (4 Jan 2005 18:36:23 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2005 18:36:23 +0000 (UTC) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Tue Jan 04 19:36:13 2005 Return-path: Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by deer.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CltEa-0001DS-00 for ; Tue, 04 Jan 2005 19:16:45 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CltPn-0001kO-VH for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 04 Jan 2005 13:28:19 -0500 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.33) id 1CltPe-0001jG-Ug for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 04 Jan 2005 13:28:11 -0500 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.33) id 1CltPd-0001iV-Bc for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 04 Jan 2005 13:28:09 -0500 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CltPd-0001i8-9y for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 04 Jan 2005 13:28:09 -0500 Original-Received: from [141.146.126.228] (helo=agminet01.oracle.com) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (TLSv1:DES-CBC3-SHA:168) (Exim 4.34) id 1CltB2-0002uS-Un for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 04 Jan 2005 13:13:05 -0500 Original-Received: from agminet01.oracle.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by agminet01.oracle.com (Switch-3.1.4/Switch-3.1.0) with ESMTP id j04ICpZK002622; Tue, 4 Jan 2005 10:12:52 -0800 Original-Received: from rgmsgw301.us.oracle.com (rgmsgw301.us.oracle.com [138.1.191.50]) by agminet01.oracle.com (Switch-3.1.4/Switch-3.1.0) with ESMTP id j04ICosX002595; Tue, 4 Jan 2005 10:12:50 -0800 Original-Received: from rgmsgw301.us.oracle.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by rgmsgw301.us.oracle.com (Switch-3.1.4/Switch-3.1.0) with ESMTP id j04ICnhF015862; Tue, 4 Jan 2005 11:12:49 -0700 Original-Received: from dradamslap (dhcp-amer-csvpn-gw2-141-144-82-222.vpn.oracle.com [141.144.82.222]) by rgmsgw301.us.oracle.com (Switch-3.1.4/Switch-3.1.0) with SMTP id j04ICkNt015796 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5 bits=128 verify=NO); Tue, 4 Jan 2005 11:12:49 -0700 Original-To: "Luc Teirlinck" , X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.6604 (9.0.2911.0) In-reply-to: <200501041555.j04FtG815571@raven.dms.auburn.edu> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 Importance: Normal X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: main.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:31835 X-Report-Spam: http://spam.gmane.org/gmane.emacs.devel:31835 > So, it sounds like perhaps we should reconsider what > the aim of this > so-called "initial Lisp expression" is. What is the > need that its display is meant to satisfy? The idea is to allow the user to edit the *unevaluated* expression that is used to initialize the variable at start-up. That is apparently not what it does. If you set, say, auto-revert-interval, which is 5 by default, to 10 and save for future sessions, then set it to 20 for this session only, "show initial Lisp expression" will show 10, not 5. I think you mean "will show 10, not (if window-system 'x 2)". IOW, if this was supposed to show the unevaluated defining Lisp EXPRESSION at installment, then you are saying that it doesn't - it shows the last-saved VALUE (as a sexp). Two differences here: 1) when it was defined (installment vs last save), 2) uneval'd vs eval'd. It is most useful to see: 1) The current defining Lisp sexp (not necessarily the definition at installment time, since another library might have modified the def). The best way to make this available is with a link to the source code - a la `C-h v'. 2) The current value of the variable as a sexp - a la `C-h v'. This is not the same as the last-saved value. (The last-saved value is available in the custom file/.emacs.) Neither of these is currently available. The "initial Lisp expression" should be dropped in favor of these two display options.