From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: main.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: "Drew Adams" Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: RE: describe-mode's treatment of minor-modes is annoying Date: Tue, 4 May 2004 13:58:35 -0700 Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+emacs-devel=quimby.gnus.org@gnu.org Message-ID: References: NNTP-Posting-Host: deer.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: sea.gmane.org 1083705641 1407 80.91.224.253 (4 May 2004 21:20:41 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 4 May 2004 21:20:41 +0000 (UTC) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+emacs-devel=quimby.gnus.org@gnu.org Tue May 04 23:20:23 2004 Return-path: Original-Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([80.91.224.244]) by deer.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1BL7Kw-0000a1-00 for ; Tue, 04 May 2004 23:20:22 +0200 Original-Received: from monty-python.gnu.org ([199.232.76.173]) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1BL7Kw-0002C2-00 for ; Tue, 04 May 2004 23:20:22 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.30) id 1BL7Da-00088T-UQ for emacs-devel@quimby.gnus.org; Tue, 04 May 2004 17:12:46 -0400 Original-Received: from list by monty-python.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.30) id 1BL75N-0005YM-Ln for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 04 May 2004 17:04:17 -0400 Original-Received: from mail by monty-python.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.30) id 1BL74u-0005Nd-31 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 04 May 2004 17:04:12 -0400 Original-Received: from [141.146.126.231] (helo=agminet04.oracle.com) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (TLSv1:DES-CBC3-SHA:168) (Exim 4.30) id 1BL707-0003qx-71; Tue, 04 May 2004 16:58:51 -0400 Original-Received: from agminet04.oracle.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by agminet04.oracle.com (Switch-3.1.4/Switch-3.1.0) with ESMTP id i44Kwk4C031065; Tue, 4 May 2004 13:58:46 -0700 Original-Received: from rgmgw2.us.oracle.com (rgmgw2.us.oracle.com [138.1.191.11]) by agminet04.oracle.com (Switch-3.1.4/Switch-3.1.0) with ESMTP id i44Kwcbv030933; Tue, 4 May 2004 13:58:39 -0700 Original-Received: from rgmgw2.us.oracle.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by rgmgw2.us.oracle.com (Switch-3.1.4/Switch-3.1.0) with ESMTP id i44KwbKA022987; Tue, 4 May 2004 14:58:38 -0600 Original-Received: from dradamslap (dhcp-amer-vpn-gw2-east-141-144-66-185.vpn.oracle.com [141.144.66.185]) by rgmgw2.us.oracle.com (Switch-3.1.4/Switch-3.1.0) with SMTP id i44Kwbld022963; Tue, 4 May 2004 14:58:37 -0600 Original-To: , "Miles Bader" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.6604 (9.0.2911.0) In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 Importance: Normal X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.4 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+emacs-devel=quimby.gnus.org@gnu.org Xref: main.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:22754 X-Report-Spam: http://spam.gmane.org/gmane.emacs.devel:22754 > I think it used to put the minor modes after the major mode. The > problem was, people did not even know the minor mode info was there. In Emacs 20, the first two lines said this: The major mode is described first. For minor modes, see following pages. So users knew the minor mode info was there, and they saw the major mode info first. >> E.g., make the layout something like: >> (Information on [minor modes] comes after the major mode description) > This might be ok. It should also suggest typing C-x ] C-x ] to get to > the minor mode information. That should always work, since the major > mode doc string should never contain a page break. C-x ] and C-x [ are not obvious. And the pages are all displayed together (at least in Emacs 20): ^L is all that appears as page separator, so the buffer is quite busy. Instead of using separate pages in the same buffer, why not use separate incarnations of the *Help* buffer. `C-h m' would display just a one-liner about each mode in *Help*, with a link for each mode (part or all of the one-liner) to its detailed description: Major mode SQL[oracle] mode: Major mode to edit SQL. Minor modes Font-Lock minor mode (no indicator): Toggle Font Lock mode. ... If there are no minor modes, just show the major-mode doc directly. The links would display the individual mode descriptions in *Help*, with a back button. Less busy. Uses links instead of C-x ] to navigate. Drawback: cannot see (or print) everything at once. Would that be worth another link/button that displays everything at once (separate pages)? - Drew