From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: main.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: "Drew Adams" Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: RE: Should the mode line extend under the scroll bar? Date: Sat, 2 Oct 2004 23:14:45 -0700 Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Message-ID: References: NNTP-Posting-Host: deer.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: sea.gmane.org 1096784134 23381 80.91.229.6 (3 Oct 2004 06:15:34 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 3 Oct 2004 06:15:34 +0000 (UTC) Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sun Oct 03 08:15:18 2004 Return-path: Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by deer.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CDzeQ-0005Xj-00 for ; Sun, 03 Oct 2004 08:15:18 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CDzkx-0008Qw-75 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sun, 03 Oct 2004 02:22:03 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.33) id 1CDzkr-0008Qr-Cv for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 03 Oct 2004 02:21:57 -0400 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.33) id 1CDzkq-0008Qf-UN for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 03 Oct 2004 02:21:57 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CDzkq-0008Qc-Q4 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 03 Oct 2004 02:21:56 -0400 Original-Received: from [148.87.2.204] (helo=inet-mail4.oracle.com) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (TLSv1:DES-CBC3-SHA:168) (Exim 4.34) id 1CDze5-00058b-27; Sun, 03 Oct 2004 02:14:57 -0400 Original-Received: from rgmgw2.us.oracle.com (rgmgw2.us.oracle.com [138.1.191.11]) by inet-mail4.oracle.com (Switch-3.1.4/Switch-3.1.0) with ESMTP id i9369TdS001561; Sat, 2 Oct 2004 23:09:32 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: from rgmgw2.us.oracle.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by rgmgw2.us.oracle.com (Switch-3.1.4/Switch-3.1.0) with ESMTP id i936EoC9024545; Sun, 3 Oct 2004 00:14:50 -0600 Original-Received: from dradamslap (dhcp-amer-csvpn-gw2-141-144-81-110.vpn.oracle.com [141.144.81.110]) by rgmgw2.us.oracle.com (Switch-3.1.4/Switch-3.1.0) with SMTP id i936EoMq024537; Sun, 3 Oct 2004 00:14:50 -0600 Original-To: , X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.6604 (9.0.2911.0) In-Reply-To: Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: main.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:27818 X-Report-Spam: http://spam.gmane.org/gmane.emacs.devel:27818 Just to clarify (I sent an update to bug-gnu-emacs, but not to this list): Some of what I described below was due to a bug that I have not been able to reproduce. In particular: - Forget about the "Attempt to drag leftmost scrollbar" bug. - Forget too about the complaint that the drag handle is in the wrong place (too far to the right). The points I want to make are just these: - The drag handles are not obvious (they appear only on mouseover) and are difficult to grab (at least on Windows). - Grabbing a drag handle selects and activates the mode line (to its left) - an irrelevant side effect. Emacs 20: Emacs 21: M M M M M M M M M M M M XXXXXXX.ZZZZZZZ. XXXXXXXXZZZZZZZZ The squares where the `.' are were visible drag handles for the windows. And the `.' for a one-window-p window could do something else useful like resize the frame to fit the window buffer. -----Original Message----- From: emacs-devel-bounces+drew.adams=oracle.com@gnu.org [mailto:emacs-devel-bounces+drew.adams=oracle.com@gnu.org]On Behalf Of Richard Stallman Sent: Saturday, October 02, 2004 6:19 PM To: emacs-devel@gnu.org Subject: Should the mode line extend under the scroll bar? The change that was made in how far the mode line extends has practical effects that this user is unhappy with. what do others think? From: "Drew Adams" ... In Emacs 20, the mode line did not extend under a vertical scroll bar (or under a vertical line) -- there was a small (~4mm) square that you could drag with the mouse to resize the window. In Emacs 21, this small but visible "drag handle" has disappeared. If you position the mouse _very_ carefully along the mode line at the window division, you can grab and drag the divider. However, this effective drag handle is _very_ small and not obvious at all (only the cursor change indicates its presence). Also, if you have two horizontally adjacent windows and try to drag the divider, you actually need to place the mouse slightly to the right of the divider, so that it is well over the right mode line, not the left (even though it is the left mode line that extends under the scroll bar). This is not intuitive at all. If you try to grab & drag directly under the scroll bar (as in Emacs 20), you grab the left mode line, and nothing happens (no drag cursor). If you grab slightly to the right of this, at the right edge of the scroll bar, in the modeline (that is, _at_ the vertical line that separates the windows), then you see the drag cursor (so everything looks OK), but you also get this error message: "Attempt to drag leftmost scrollbar". There is no reason for this. Intuitively, that is just what you _want_ to do: drag the "leftmost" scrollbar - that is, drag the only vertical separation you see between the two windows. You certainly don't want to (and cannot) drag the _rightmost_ scrollbar/vertical line! To be able to drag the vertical line, you must in fact grab it slightly to the right of the visible vertical line, that is, to the right of the right edge of the scroll bar, so that you are well over the right mode line. The proper position appears to be at the right edge of the fringe! Dragging here also activates the right mode line, for no reason that I can see. All of this is not very intuitive. _______________________________________________ Emacs-devel mailing list Emacs-devel@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-devel