From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: main.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: "Drew Adams" Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: RE: not too happy with Emacs 21 vertical-line dragging when scrollbars present Date: Tue, 5 Oct 2004 01:49:38 -0700 Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Message-ID: References: NNTP-Posting-Host: deer.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: sea.gmane.org 1096966259 1511 80.91.229.6 (5 Oct 2004 08:50:59 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 5 Oct 2004 08:50:59 +0000 (UTC) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org, rms@gnu.org, Miles Bader Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Tue Oct 05 10:50:48 2004 Return-path: Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by deer.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CEl20-0000SD-00 for ; Tue, 05 Oct 2004 10:50:48 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CEl8d-0002YF-58 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 05 Oct 2004 04:57:39 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.33) id 1CEl8H-0002Xa-3q for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 05 Oct 2004 04:57:17 -0400 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.33) id 1CEl8F-0002Wp-HX for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 05 Oct 2004 04:57:15 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CEl8F-0002Wh-Bz for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 05 Oct 2004 04:57:15 -0400 Original-Received: from [141.146.126.229] (helo=agminet02.oracle.com) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (TLSv1:DES-CBC3-SHA:168) (Exim 4.34) id 1CEl14-0004jy-T7; Tue, 05 Oct 2004 04:49:51 -0400 Original-Received: from rgmgw1.us.oracle.com (rgmgw1.us.oracle.com [138.1.191.10]) by agminet02.oracle.com (Switch-3.1.4/Switch-3.1.0) with ESMTP id i958ngKU007049; Tue, 5 Oct 2004 01:49:43 -0700 Original-Received: from rgmgw1.us.oracle.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by rgmgw1.us.oracle.com (Switch-3.1.4/Switch-3.1.0) with ESMTP id i958ngj3018405; Tue, 5 Oct 2004 02:49:42 -0600 Original-Received: from dradamslap (dhcp-amer-csvpn-gw2-141-144-81-47.vpn.oracle.com [141.144.81.47]) by rgmgw1.us.oracle.com (Switch-3.1.4/Switch-3.1.0) with SMTP id i958nfgI018391; Tue, 5 Oct 2004 02:49:41 -0600 Original-To: "Kim F. Storm" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.6604 (9.0.2911.0) X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 In-Reply-To: Importance: Normal X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: main.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:27924 X-Report-Spam: http://spam.gmane.org/gmane.emacs.devel:27924 I still think that a visible affordance would be good; I'm not a fan of having to discover things by accidentally mousing over them (or searching for them by mousing around). I agree that we don't want to reduce window real estate in any way for this. You & RMS both mentioned a draggable area to the _left_ of the mode line. Until now, I thought that was a typo. I thought Richard meant the _right_ end of the mode line that is to the _left_ of the scroll bar. Now I understand that you're both speaking of the _left_ end of the mode line that is to the _right_ of the scroll bar - is that correct? That is, the proposed area to resize the left window is to the right of the window's scroll bar, not underneath the scroll bar. If so, then I don't think that would be very cool. Usable, but ugly. Anyway, I agree that we should just forget about this for now -- if there's no way to recuperate the space under the scroll bar. Perhaps an elegant solution will make itself evident sometime in the future. - Drew -----Original Message----- From: Kim F. Storm [mailto:storm@cua.dk] Sent: Tuesday, October 05, 2004 1:21 AM To: Drew Adams Cc: Miles Bader; rms@gnu.org; emacs-devel@gnu.org Subject: Re: not too happy with Emacs 21 vertical-line dragging when scrollbars present "Drew Adams" writes: > I'm open wrt what symbol to use, and I'm not arguing that it be obtrusive. I > don't think we disagree. Personally, I don't think a symbol is needed ... Admittedly, it is not very intuitive that you can drag the small line between mode lines, but the cursor does change to a <-> arrow when over that line. It would be much better if we could find a way to just drag the scroll-bar. One way would be to always make a tiny area between windows that you could drag. But unless we do it by reducing the qscroll bar width, that would take away space that is now used for text display. > > My question was really about how to do this. I have no experience with the > new mode line or using bitmaps etc. I'll consult the Emacs doc (when I get > around to this), but if someone has a pointer or two now, it would be > appreciated. You can easily make a drag-able area to the left of the modeline, but one problem with this is that the lisp code expects to be using the window on the left side of the vertical line, not the right window -- you would have to modify the lisp code to deal with this. It is much harder (impossible) to make a drag-able area to the right of the modeline, as there is no fixed right edge of the modeline at the lisp level [the modeline is simply truncated by redisplay]. But I think we have bigger issues to think about for the next release, so I suggest that we postpone this discussion... -- Kim F. Storm http://www.cua.dk