From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: main.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: "Marshall, Simon" Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: RE: emacs 21.2 Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 15:20:32 -0000 Sender: emacs-devel-admin@gnu.org Message-ID: NNTP-Posting-Host: localhost.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Trace: main.gmane.org 1016810520 18486 127.0.0.1 (22 Mar 2002 15:22:00 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@main.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 15:22:00 +0000 (UTC) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([80.91.224.244]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1 (Debian)) id 16oQrg-0004o3-00 for ; Fri, 22 Mar 2002 16:22:00 +0100 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([199.232.76.164]) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtp (Exim 3.12 #1 (Debian)) id 16oQyO-0007eC-00 for ; Fri, 22 Mar 2002 16:28:56 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=fencepost.gnu.org) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 3.34 #1 (Debian)) id 16oQrK-0001l9-00; Fri, 22 Mar 2002 10:21:38 -0500 Original-Received: from mail17.messagelabs.com ([62.231.131.67] helo=server-22.tower-17.messagelabs.com) by fencepost.gnu.org with smtp (Exim 3.34 #1 (Debian)) id 16oQqP-0001br-00 for ; Fri, 22 Mar 2002 10:20:41 -0500 X-VirusChecked: Checked Original-Received: (qmail 27174 invoked from network); 22 Mar 2002 15:20:38 -0000 Original-Received: from gull.midas-kapiti.com (HELO pigeon.misys.com) (193.115.208.67) by server-22.tower-17.messagelabs.com with SMTP; 22 Mar 2002 15:20:38 -0000 Original-Received: FROM gull.misys.com BY pigeon.misys.com ; Fri Mar 22 15:20:37 2002 0000 Original-Received: by gull.midas-kapiti.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id ; Fri, 22 Mar 2002 15:20:37 -0000 Original-To: 'Eli Zaretskii' X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Errors-To: emacs-devel-admin@gnu.org X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.5 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Emacs development discussions. List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Xref: main.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:2132 X-Report-Spam: http://spam.gmane.org/gmane.emacs.devel:2132 > I'm sorry to hear that. From the v21.2 pretest experience, it sounds > like the interest in trying the pretest versions has diminished lately > in general. If that is so, the adverse effects of that will certainly > show in the long run in the quality of our releases. I lament that > tendency, and hope I'm dead wrong in my conclusions. > > I wish people would understand that sometimes stability is more > important than fixing some annoying misbehavior or adding new > features. I wish more people who read this list would participate in > pretesting Emacs, even if the release under pretest is a minor bugfix. I don't know if you meant to direct this comment at the emacs-devel list only; I changed the recipients from emacs-pretesters when I brought this up since I originally just wanted to understand the release policy. If it was directed at pretesters, then, put yourself in my (a pretester) shoes. I spent a large amount of my own time tracking down problems with the last pretest & coming up with some fixes & testing others'. I did it because I thought it would be worth it: I thought the next Emacs release would fix those problems. Why would I bother if fixes wouldn't appear in the next release? Why would I bother if I could just leave it to the pretests after next (or some future) release? > Of course, since there's a judgement call involved, everybody is > welcome to step forward and argue for the changes they think should > be included. But if you don't speak up, I can't see how can we take > your views into account. I think it is difficult for pretesters to follow the release policy (assuming that they know what it is---I didn't/don't) and make these kinds of judgements. I think it has to come down to the judgement of you guys. I think your release policy itself is wrong---assuming I know what it is---I think the only reason to release a version that does not fix serious but not necessarily fatal bugs is when a quick release is needed because the previous release was broken. I think 21.2 should have fixed known serious bugs as well as addressed "stability" (however you define that) issues. To take your 2nd para above, you say "even if the release under pretest is a minor bugfix". What on Earth does this mean? IMHO, and no criticism should be taken by anyone at all, it had some serious behaviour and performance bugs. Are you saying that, from the beginning, only minor fixes would be going in 21.2? What was the point of that? _______________________________________________ Emacs-devel mailing list Emacs-devel@gnu.org http://mail.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-devel