From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Jean-Christophe Helary Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: L10n deserves to be systematized Date: Fri, 5 May 2017 18:29:05 +0900 Message-ID: References: <52ebee64-0887-6039-3959-2fd5f6b5fd0a@F123.org> <838tmchf6m.fsf@gnu.org> <3001d859-43e4-7c1e-5298-2f2418c84c5b@F123.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: blaine.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 10.3 \(3273\)) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: blaine.gmane.org 1493976589 6441 195.159.176.226 (5 May 2017 09:29:49 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@blaine.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 5 May 2017 09:29:49 +0000 (UTC) Cc: Eli Zaretskii , Paul Eggert , emacs-devel To: Fernando.Botelho@F123.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Fri May 05 11:29:43 2017 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1d6ZYS-0001WB-MZ for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 05 May 2017 11:29:40 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:45902 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1d6ZYY-0003Kq-BN for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 05 May 2017 05:29:46 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:37684) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1d6ZY1-0003KW-0n for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 05 May 2017 05:29:14 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1d6ZY0-00078T-7K for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 05 May 2017 05:29:13 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-pg0-x242.google.com ([2607:f8b0:400e:c05::242]:34909) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:16) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1d6ZXv-00077b-Ih; Fri, 05 May 2017 05:29:07 -0400 Original-Received: by mail-pg0-x242.google.com with SMTP id i63so83544pgd.2; Fri, 05 May 2017 02:29:07 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=VNMaOvOYd7+QyfWkP4QANpqcHoBZp9cZR2cBARuoovE=; b=oksR5PJFdh2wfwYkZIW3EdzPiJw7q5AH/y+6DUghn8I6WbowicLpJtl7QO7W6R9v6n hoq1VfnRiA2QZwmm8IlHF8vjQCuQUdB2RL3s+Bq2FmDNenQmsjtW7dfHYqAJzcUfSbpE 2Ajx+FGwHoHNej1nO8pfuXgN/ni8y6DIJDMooAioo9tQfEOPbtiwisiAomk7WdKNb/X1 NZ5mRLwJNR5gN9UfqkCJXPQEeFOeWC+ToNTB0BBcW+bph4rOsjh17zVZRlYQW9a5Lq7b PhmhHJvgFlp+5HxKvFtUN9fS3JmuMp888pctID7y/t/c8wSSIvUIl57iSTa0247osCz0 U4XQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=VNMaOvOYd7+QyfWkP4QANpqcHoBZp9cZR2cBARuoovE=; b=Cj/veTKYhmrlF06wb4L2LeicvBV2KgA75r3D/DPYsm0uHKG4yTeBBjMVOF/6dlYy9U DdzGC1UNP+p0Wwmjzn8TBYXnA4mL9PAjrwATfIJoCWoiJIw/lWP0dSWxlW60cHJ1vKx6 IQO8OOgQ5pxNshs2FV6/uDlzSgMK5ytQ+xKzmqpEwlTBQml37hDv6ygPbz/GisI4upmd jNMQt+lRXlxve/Rm4/5bMrMmAVWsnOn6n1praWZ9pKPx9Oi8bgK3A5nL2eH9nuvPERKG LpBA0cu0weJytGIfgcSE06NHHjGkMs4Qhy9VDC9Hi4Sdp5dYgjkC36HRZHfnu0efn+Jc RU0A== X-Gm-Message-State: AN3rC/4S69qYeGHwkYvdHU63fHw7oxbR8SJXHR71gGZWk06dkPkMvGhn 4AKMFEcVdzwnkQ== X-Received: by 10.98.139.10 with SMTP id j10mr5291616pfe.131.1493976546440; Fri, 05 May 2017 02:29:06 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: from [10.182.208.159] (dcm1-221-170-66-71.tky.mesh.ad.jp. [221.170.66.71]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id b68sm8118585pfa.127.2017.05.05.02.29.04 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Fri, 05 May 2017 02:29:05 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <3001d859-43e4-7c1e-5298-2f2418c84c5b@F123.org> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3273) X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Genre and OS details not recognized. X-Received-From: 2607:f8b0:400e:c05::242 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:214576 Archived-At: > Apologies Jean-Christophe. I did not mean to imply that I had learned = nothing from the interaction on the list. It is clear to me that the = usual translation of interface, etc, is beyond our current resources. I was not suggesting that, don't worry :) > This is what I was suggesting. A list focused on Emacs translation = rather than coding. But like the github issue, we will need a = GNU-approved host. Not really. What we need is to have a process that produces good = translations and then a way to deliver the translations that is = compatible with the GNU project. > =46rom Eli: > "Not sure why the mailing list is not in the CC." In CC here. > The Lisp reference manual is for programmers, and those usually have a = much better control of English." That's a common misconception. Programmers rely first on ressources in their language and then try to = make sense of the rest. In the case of the Emacs/Elisp manuals the rest = is a very verbose set of files and is in fact quite difficult to make = sense of when you're not a native. > "I would propose to focus on the user manual. =20 In fact, I'd suggest the opposite. Emacs has already a huge volume of = introductory and advanced materials on the web and in print and is thus = quite accessible for non English speakers. The Elisp reference is simply not that widely available. Also, as I mentioned in an earlier mail, translators are generally good = proofreaders. They can find a lot of errors, inconsistencies, hard to = understand parts, etc. and translation directly contributes to native's = access to a better documentation. But in the end, it really is up to the translators to decide what they = want to work on. > I am still not sure what I will be using. OmegaT uses Java, and being = blind, I have had bad experiences with that in the past. So I will have = to check and see if it is accessible. I will ask a blind translators = list I heard of. I've had a lot of exchanges with people on the Librt=C3=A9 0 list and it = seems OmegaT is not very accessible. But there are other tools. Emacs = and its po-mode are very basic, so it's better to look for other native = tools for your platform. > In any case, setting up the git repository and email list, and = announcing it on the Emacs lists can attract some attention and possibly = other translators. Maybe. But I'd focus on the GNU/FOSS translations groups that already = exist in the various languages. Jean-Christophe=