From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: "Drew Adams" Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: RE: C-j considered harmful (not really) Date: Mon, 23 Nov 2009 07:05:47 -0800 Message-ID: References: <912155b0911161437l7d5d5d3h790edff279fdad7a@mail.gmail.com><7b501d5c0911161451s3e54e48dve127bd144f2affc8@mail.gmail.com><877htpjwd4.fsf@mail.jurta.org><912155b0911221236t7cebbb35n4bc10805bb685c1e@mail.gmail.com> <87zl6dk2pz.fsf@mail.jurta.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1258988823 32312 80.91.229.12 (23 Nov 2009 15:07:03 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 23 Nov 2009 15:07:03 +0000 (UTC) Cc: =?iso-8859-1?Q?'Per_Starb=E4ck'?= , emacs-devel@gnu.org, 'Deniz Dogan' To: "'Juri Linkov'" , "'Stefan Monnier'" Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Mon Nov 23 16:06:53 2009 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1NCaUv-0004Pv-Ol for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 23 Nov 2009 16:06:44 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:45348 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1NCaUu-0000bx-Q7 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 23 Nov 2009 10:06:36 -0500 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1NCaUG-0000E6-Ii for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 23 Nov 2009 10:05:56 -0500 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1NCaUB-0000AA-Hq for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 23 Nov 2009 10:05:56 -0500 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (port=39719 helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1NCaUB-00009g-3e for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 23 Nov 2009 10:05:51 -0500 Original-Received: from rcsinet11.oracle.com ([148.87.113.123]:19438 helo=rgminet11.oracle.com) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS-1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1NCaUA-0008Si-B4 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 23 Nov 2009 10:05:50 -0500 Original-Received: from acsinet15.oracle.com (acsinet15.oracle.com [141.146.126.227]) by rgminet11.oracle.com (Switch-3.3.1/Switch-3.3.1) with ESMTP id nANF5iMv023276 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 23 Nov 2009 15:05:46 GMT Original-Received: from acsmt353.oracle.com (acsmt353.oracle.com [141.146.40.153]) by acsinet15.oracle.com (Switch-3.3.1/Switch-3.3.1) with ESMTP id nANE9H1v011464; Mon, 23 Nov 2009 15:07:33 GMT Original-Received: from abhmt021.oracle.com by acsmt358.oracle.com with ESMTP id 539287211258988731; Mon, 23 Nov 2009 09:05:31 -0600 Original-Received: from dradamslap1 (/24.5.185.59) by default (Oracle Beehive Gateway v4.0) with ESMTP ; Mon, 23 Nov 2009 07:05:31 -0800 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 In-Reply-To: <87zl6dk2pz.fsf@mail.jurta.org> Thread-Index: AcpsOPi0JmXgungfTFmbmtFPETsT/AAE4yJA X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.5579 X-Source-IP: acsmt353.oracle.com [141.146.40.153] X-Auth-Type: Internal IP X-CT-RefId: str=0001.0A090207.4B0AA4C5.00B7:SCFMA4539814,ss=1,fgs=0 X-detected-operating-system: by monty-python.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 1) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:117587 Archived-At: > I guess the initial suggestion was rather: > (define-key minibuffer-local-map [S-return] 'newline) 1. I hope you won't do that. It's best to reserve modifiers for similar meanings as the base key they modify, other things being equal. IOW, S-RET, M-RET, C-M-RET, C-S-RET, etc. should be reserved for things akin to what RET does. (In Icicles, for instance, S-RET in the minibuffer overrides the REQUIRE-MATCH arg to completing-read, so it acts like RET + confirmation. Just an example.) I wasn't going to speak to the general question about `S-RET' as a binding for newline, but since I've started... 2. I don't like the idea of binding `S-RET' to newline. The argument is apparently that some users will be used to that and thus expect it. So what? There are so many more things to learn about Emacs that might not be what someone is used to. This is truly not a big deal, and it doesn't warrant sacrificing a good key such as `S-RET'. That key is naturally associated with RET, which is used often and has specific meanings in different contexts, so `S-RET' can be used for a variant of what RET does in any given context (see #1 wrt the minibuffer's RET). `C-j' _IS_ newline. OK, some people don't know that. But most programmers of UNIX, Linux, C, etc. do know it, and others can surely learn it - no biggee. It is elegant to use the key to self-insert, the same way it is elegant to use the key `a' to insert an `a' character. Just one opinion.