From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: "Drew Adams" Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: RE: Suggestion: minor change to TUTORIAL(.*) Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2006 22:06:55 -0700 Message-ID: References: NNTP-Posting-Host: main.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: sea.gmane.org 1160456857 11340 80.91.229.2 (10 Oct 2006 05:07:37 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2006 05:07:37 +0000 (UTC) Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Tue Oct 10 07:07:36 2006 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by ciao.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1GX9q1-0002Ei-Pi for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 10 Oct 2006 07:07:34 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1GX9q1-0005ow-9Q for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 10 Oct 2006 01:07:33 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1GX9pg-0005nu-PX for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 10 Oct 2006 01:07:12 -0400 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1GX9pe-0005nV-8S for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 10 Oct 2006 01:07:11 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1GX9pe-0005nS-3K for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 10 Oct 2006 01:07:10 -0400 Original-Received: from [141.146.126.228] (helo=agminet01.oracle.com) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS-1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA:32) (Exim 4.52) id 1GX9xL-0005EE-Nc for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 10 Oct 2006 01:15:07 -0400 Original-Received: from rgmsgw02.us.oracle.com (rgmsgw02.us.oracle.com [138.1.186.52]) by agminet01.oracle.com (Switch-3.2.4/Switch-3.1.7) with ESMTP id k9A575ED028491 for ; Tue, 10 Oct 2006 00:07:06 -0500 Original-Received: from dradamslap (dhcp-amer-whq-csvpn-gw3-141-144-83-154.vpn.oracle.com [141.144.83.154]) by rgmsgw02.us.oracle.com (Switch-3.2.4/Switch-3.2.4) with SMTP id k9A5742D010087 for ; Mon, 9 Oct 2006 23:07:05 -0600 Original-To: X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.6604 (9.0.2911.0) In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1807 Importance: Normal X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAQAAAAI= X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAQAAAAI= X-Whitelist: TRUE X-Whitelist: TRUE X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:60574 Archived-At: > There are no key names that contain spaces. My keyboard has keys labeled like this: Page Num Down Lock etc. It's hard to say about these that they don't contain spaces. I'm talking about the key names that are used by Emacs - logical key names, not physical keyboard key names. See my previous email on that (subject line "bug in read-kbd-macro"), which you declined to read because of its length. Your physical key "Page Down" is referred to by Emacs (in both the manual and the UI messages and *Help*) by the logical-key name `', which has no spaces. There are no logical-key names that contain spaces, at least none that I am aware of. We do not use `', for instance; we use `'. (This is a precondition for my argument to dispense with using angle brackets.) [I don't know where our key names come from. Perhaps they are derived from the X-Window names in file keysymdef.h? None of the keysymdef.h key names have embedded spaces, either, including the keys XK_Next and XK_Page_Down.] > Is the following hard to understand? > > `M-x t e x t SPC m o d e RET' It's very hard to read, especially with longer commands. There are relatively few instructions to type keys in the manuals, and the above, fictitious example (not from a manual) is much longer than any I have seen in the manual - about twice as long. So the length problem you cite does not seem to be a problem in practice. The problem of ambiguity between, say, "Type `M-x'" (3 keystrokes) and "Type `M-x'" (1 chord keystroke), is, however, real - the former should be written "Type `M - x'".