From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: "Drew Adams" Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: RE: Mention mouse-face changes mouse pointer shape Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2007 08:23:11 -0800 Message-ID: References: <45DDB142.1080008@gnu.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: sea.gmane.org 1172161457 5238 80.91.229.12 (22 Feb 2007 16:24:17 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2007 16:24:17 +0000 (UTC) To: "Emacs Devel" Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Thu Feb 22 17:24:06 2007 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1HKGjj-0002qD-QQ for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 22 Feb 2007 17:24:04 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HKGjj-0002ja-8Z for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 22 Feb 2007 11:24:03 -0500 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1HKGjO-0002iR-Cu for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 22 Feb 2007 11:23:42 -0500 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1HKGjN-0002iF-Bg for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 22 Feb 2007 11:23:41 -0500 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HKGjN-0002iC-7m for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 22 Feb 2007 11:23:41 -0500 Original-Received: from rgminet01.oracle.com ([148.87.113.118]) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS-1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA:32) (Exim 4.52) id 1HKGjM-00012w-RR for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 22 Feb 2007 11:23:41 -0500 Original-Received: from rgmgw2.us.oracle.com (rgmgw2.us.oracle.com [138.1.186.111]) by rgminet01.oracle.com (Switch-3.2.4/Switch-3.1.6) with ESMTP id l1MGNMin010512 for ; Thu, 22 Feb 2007 09:23:22 -0700 Original-Received: from rcsmt251.oracle.com (rcsmt251.oracle.com [148.87.90.196]) by rgmgw2.us.oracle.com (Switch-3.2.4/Switch-3.1.7) with ESMTP id l1MGNL6B003721 for ; Thu, 22 Feb 2007 09:23:21 -0700 Original-Received: from dhcp-4op11-4op12-west-130-35-178-179.us.oracle.com by rcsmt250.oracle.com with ESMTP id 2470523481172161396; Thu, 22 Feb 2007 09:23:16 -0700 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.6604 (9.0.2911.0) Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <45DDB142.1080008@gnu.org> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3028 X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAQAAAAI= X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAQAAAAI= X-Whitelist: TRUE X-Whitelist: TRUE X-detected-kernel: Linux 2.4-2.6 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:66621 Archived-At: > But shouldn't the cursor change to a hand cursor rather than an arrow > cursor when hoovering over a mouse-face? > > I think the change was a mistake, instead we should have arranged the > relevant areas to have both mouse-face and pointer text properties. But > I don't know how much effort it will be now to go back and change this. I haven't followed this thread closely, but this does indeed sound like a (design) mistake. The two, mouse-face and pointer shape, should be independent, by default. If some particular code wants to couple them for some purpose, that's fine, but such a coupling should not be hard-coded or the default behavior. The use and the interpretation of these properties should be open, IMO. Code that uses them should be able to decide what their relation, if any, should be in any given context. It is wrong to assume that mouse-face always indicates a link. If it indicates anything particular a priori, it is only that the mouse can operate on the text in question somehow, and even that interpretation is not required. It is also wrong to assume that the finger pointer always indicates a link. The meaning of each of these two properties is open, by default, and it makes no sense to hard-couple them. If some people think that wedding them is helpful in general, then we could have an option that does that. But 1) the default value of the option should not couple them, and 2) even if generally coupled by the non-default option value, this coupling should be easily overridable in any given context.