From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: "Drew Adams" Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: RE: Info tutorial is out of date Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2006 15:19:06 -0700 Message-ID: References: NNTP-Posting-Host: main.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: sea.gmane.org 1153261256 2125 80.91.229.2 (18 Jul 2006 22:20:56 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2006 22:20:56 +0000 (UTC) Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Wed Jul 19 00:20:55 2006 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by ciao.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1G2xvu-0002bJ-Ju for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Wed, 19 Jul 2006 00:20:50 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1G2xvu-0001ED-0I for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 18 Jul 2006 18:20:50 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1G2xvA-0000mQ-Mj for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 18 Jul 2006 18:20:04 -0400 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1G2xv8-0000lj-E3 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 18 Jul 2006 18:20:03 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1G2xv8-0000lZ-5I for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 18 Jul 2006 18:20:02 -0400 Original-Received: from [148.87.113.118] (helo=rgminet01.oracle.com) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS-1.0:DHE_RSA_3DES_EDE_CBC_SHA:24) (Exim 4.52) id 1G2xy6-0000KB-Rp for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 18 Jul 2006 18:23:07 -0400 Original-Received: from rcsmt251.oracle.com (rcsmt251.oracle.com [148.87.90.196]) by rgminet01.oracle.com (Switch-3.1.6/Switch-3.1.6) with ESMTP id k6IBdnSl018815 for ; Tue, 18 Jul 2006 16:19:59 -0600 Original-Received: from dhcp-amer-whq-csvpn-gw3-141-144-80-94.vpn.oracle.com by rcsmt250.oracle.com with ESMTP id 1586889411153261151; Tue, 18 Jul 2006 16:19:11 -0600 Original-To: X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.6604 (9.0.2911.0) Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1807 X-Whitelist: TRUE X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:57292 Archived-At: > > > I see no reason why we can't have two versions of > > > the tutorial. > > > > One reason is that it's not easy to present the right one > > to the user based on her reader. Remember: > > learning Info is a bootstrap-kind of problem--you > > learn to use a tool by using > > that same tool. If we don't > > make the beginning of the bootstrap 110% reliable > > (which includes > > showing the right manual), the results will be catastrophic. > > > > So, how do you deal with that problem currently, since there > > are apparently already two manuals? > > By having the Info manual be the first item in the top-level menu. > > And? That sounds OK to me. It's okay as long as we have only one such manual. You suggested that the basics be divided between two. Put them both first (the first two in dir). Put the `n' and `p' stuff first in either one or both, for the standalone Info manuals. I don't see why that can't be done. Does the order within a manual need to be the same in the Emacs version and the standalone version? Besides, you seem to be talking about Info *manuals*. My proposal was only about the Info tutorial. I said (above) "two versions of the tutorial" (Emacs and standalone Info), and you went off about the order between two Info manuals in dir (I guess?). I'm afraid you lost me on this.