RE: Info tutorial is out of date

["Drew Adams" <drew.adams@oracle.com>]

    > The most important functions are `i', `s', `g', `l', SPC, DEL, and
    > perhaps `T' and `L' (and maybe even `M-n'). They are certainly *NOT*
    > `n', `p', `u', `d', and `m'.

    In my own Info use, I use:
    `u' and `l', `TAB' and `CR' (on links) all the time;
    <page up>, <page down> also all the time;

    `n' and `m' quite often, `p' a little less so.
    `s', `t' and `d' every now and then.
    `g' I only really use for going to an index or navigating
       "my own" info file (which I know like the back of my hand).
    `[' and `]' practically never.
    `i', `SPC', `DEL', `b', `q' I can't remember ever using (maybe I should
       read the tutorial ;-).

Glad to see some discussion finally on what's important to teach in Info!
That's just what we need, to advance the schmilblick.

I don't disagree with much of what you say here, but it's good to
prioritize, since the list of useful commands is long. And thanks for
reminding us that visible links can be accessed by `CR' from the keyboard,
not just via `m' and `f' - another reason to lower the priority of teaching
`m' and `f'.

As a first step in the direction of prioritization, I would put everything
that is purely a keyboard alternative to something that is obvious (e.g. a
link or button) as a lower priority. That means: `u', `CR', `m', `p', `d',
and `f'. We don't need to drop teaching these useful shortcuts, but we can
do it later in the tutorial.

Secondly, I think <page up> and <page down> are also pretty obvious, and
don't need to be a high priority. They're not visible in Info itself, as is
a Next link, but they're pretty standard and the keys are usually labeled
appropriately.

`TAB' is useful and non-obvious, although it is of use primarily to keyboard
users. It could perhaps be presented along with SPC and DEL, which should
have a high priority, IMO. Or, it could be presented with other navigational
keyboard shortcuts, at a lower priority. The fact that it has no alternative
that is visible argues for a higher priority than things like `n' and `p'.

`q' is fairly important, and its presentation should be coupled with `C-h
i', pointing out that re-entering Info puts you back where you last were
(not an obvious feature). I imagine that you use `C-x 0', which I guess
amounts to the same thing, but a newbie might not think of it. Since `q' is
a shortcut for Quit in the menubar menu, I would not put this at a high
priority. But since the feature of re-entering where you left off is not
obvious, I would not put it at a low priority either. Pointing out this
feature is more important than teaching use of `n' and `p' to be more
efficient.

I personally would place `b', `]', and `[' at a somewhat lower priority, but
these are not obvious, so the question might be debated.

I personally would place `g' at an intermediate priority. It is not obvious,
and it has no alternative. When you need it, you need it.

    I frequently browse through the Emacs manual by following a link, then
    using `u' once or twice "to find out where I am" followed by `l' to get
    back to that link.

Interesting (and I do the same). Nothing wrong with this use pattern, but I
wonder if a command that tells you where are (in the manual hierarchy)
wouldn't be useful. It could be bound, for example, to `.' (a la `pwd').
(Yes, I know that `.' is currently a synonym for `b'.) It could display a
"breadcrumbs" message such as this: (emacs) Top > Minibuffer > Completion >
Completion Commands.

    I think everybody has their own pattern for using these commands, and it
    is not at all certain that `n', `p', `u', `d', and `m' are secondary in
    importance.

It's not that they are not important. It's that *teaching* them is less
important, because there are obvious (visible) alternatives. But we've been
'round that bush before...

    > I think that must be our basic disagreement: what are the most
    > important Info functions and features to teach? Do we need to start by
    > teaching `n', `p', `u', `d', and `m'?

    Disregarding `m', I think that's almost the same question as "do we wish
    to teach that (most?) manuals are hierarchically structured?".

It's enough to: 1) say that manuals are hierarchically structured, and 2)
point out the Next, Previous, and Up links as manifestations of this
structure. And 3) distinguish structural navigation from chronological
navigation (`l', `r').