From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Summer Emacs Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Emacs Newbie Info Pages Date: Thu, 12 Sep 2024 19:30:57 +0200 Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 16.0 \(3776.700.51\)) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="14887"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" To: emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Thu Sep 12 19:32:04 2024 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1sonfm-0003Zf-VM for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Thu, 12 Sep 2024 19:32:03 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1sonfF-0003ok-MT; Thu, 12 Sep 2024 13:31:29 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1sonf2-0003nx-BD for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 12 Sep 2024 13:31:18 -0400 Original-Received: from st43p00im-ztbu10063701.me.com ([17.58.63.178]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1sonez-0004XK-UQ for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 12 Sep 2024 13:31:15 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=summerstar.me; s=sig1; t=1726162272; bh=hAtboLLee4yTwnLwTePmfCINuANREKqttEAsQfrJpfo=; h=From:Content-Type:Mime-Version:Subject:Message-Id:Date:To; b=JVkt1p/KOdd2euCNP7redTeMU1KutjI7I4BX3IDXnSaY2tgrK4Z0oP8KeJ+9Ndb/e UaTiw5PUc0sBnUlyThGSVRmKXUdCjlPKrClF2G8Ytwq3sC2HsdZZDl22Xi/vnbF1Aq NpoK/kIfAsVtoHDOXSTdo7eXE91eG/RO/oJ3WChnzRzngOF78FphGSRXdEWtwFkX8J +o2J8FrX6ddRZra1UnkIlhYos4wA4Oze+0T7TAk2/fuCH3qeejHoqN6kdNNi2VKaAG S20VZAjwfrJu1F9dsIo5uOoV26Vf8YGMbAUD2sMkjfVGZHrmqmm/C/aAtZJ/wXBgYB NUq1FH1I3kvsg== Original-Received: from smtpclient.apple (st43p00im-dlb-asmtp-mailmevip.me.com [17.42.251.41]) by st43p00im-ztbu10063701.me.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 3E4C5D00748 for ; Thu, 12 Sep 2024 17:31:10 +0000 (UTC) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3776.700.51) X-Proofpoint-GUID: vzHgm5xHdkJYDc7TOG0PX7qDE3blXkGv X-Proofpoint-ORIG-GUID: vzHgm5xHdkJYDc7TOG0PX7qDE3blXkGv X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=baseguard engine=ICAP:2.0.272,Aquarius:18.0.1039,Hydra:6.0.680,FMLib:17.12.60.29 definitions=2024-09-12_05,2024-09-12_01,2024-09-02_01 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 suspectscore=0 malwarescore=0 mlxscore=0 mlxlogscore=970 spamscore=0 adultscore=0 bulkscore=0 phishscore=0 clxscore=1030 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.19.0-2308100000 definitions=main-2409120130 Received-SPF: pass client-ip=17.58.63.178; envelope-from=summeremacs@summerstar.me; helo=st43p00im-ztbu10063701.me.com X-Spam_score_int: -23 X-Spam_score: -2.4 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.4 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_INVALID=0.1, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:323562 Archived-At: Hi everyone, I posted a question in Reddit this morning about having an Emacs newbie = info pages on the front of the default Emacs page for complete newbies = and first-timers. I know that the splash page already has information = links, which are very appreciated, but I think that first time users = would be overwhelmed with the information and how to use it. The goal of = this project would be the following: 1) A very visible (easy to see, and hard to miss) link at the top which = says something like =E2=80=9CNew to Emacs? Click here!=E2=80=9D 2) A simple =E2=80=9Cone page=E2=80=9D info page with some general = information about Emacs and suggested setups. This would include: a) The link to the Emacs movement/editing tutorial (vital) and why it is = necessary to go through it. b) A quick overview for non-coders/devs on how Emacs is special and can = be made to look like anything they want it to look like. c) An explanation of how to configure Emacs in a basic way with a few = links to some suggested configs to get started =E2=80=9Cout of the = box=E2=80=9D (I know this is contentious, please don=E2=80=99t bite my = head off) d) How they can download themes right away with some examples of some = basic themes and links to some popular theme packages. e) An explanation of some bigger packages which they might be interested = in as non-coders (mostly writers or other office jobs) such as: = Org-Mode, EWS, Denote, Org-Roam, Fontaine, etc=E2=80=A6a quick = explanation of what each one does, a link to the page where the = information can be found. f) How to use the configuration panels if they choose to go that route = with a few quick examples for them to try out. Now, a few things: 1) I=E2=80=99m not a dev. This is just my take from a non-dev = perspective. 2) I=E2=80=99ve heard there was work on a wizard setup a while back but = that it never went anywhere. My suggestion is to use the info pages = instead of a wizard, but to make a newbie =E2=80=9Chome base=E2=80=9D = for new users which won=E2=80=99t overwhelm them. I=E2=80=99ve already = written about 3 pages but it is very rough and needs a lot of work, = links put in, and a lot of editing because my tone is very different = from the tone of the manuals. I=E2=80=99ve never written a tutorial = before, so I=E2=80=99m going to need some volunteers to help me with = some of this stuff. 3) I don=E2=80=99t know what it takes to include such a thing into Emacs = proper. I don=E2=80=99t know how to patch things, or know what the = specifics are for submitting things in a proper way. Please don=E2=80=99t = hold that against me - I=E2=80=99m willing to learn. I wanted to write this email to put something concrete down rather than = just say =E2=80=9CEmacs needs to be better for newbs=E2=80=9D and not do = anything about it. Somebody suggest that I actually do, so I=E2=80=99m = going to try. I also don=E2=80=99t know if long emails are verboten here, so please = excuse the length of this email. I=E2=80=9Dm used to writing large = business projects and proposals where a few pages in length isn=E2=80=99t = really much of an issue. The reason I=E2=80=99m doing this: I love Emacs, but I=E2=80=99m a special case and I know it. It was a = sleepless week of learning how computer hard drives and what a CLI was = during the lockdown of the pandemic eventually led me to Emacs. By then, = I wasn=E2=80=99t put off as much by the initial welcome screen., But I = know that many others might be. I=E2=80=99m not suggesting we change the = welcome screen because I know that=E2=80=99s an issue which causes = fights and division in the group - I=E2=80=99m just suggesting we have = an area that is instantly accessible to allow users to see something = that Emacs *could* be if they just learn a little bit. I hope that this = is an acceptable and practical suggestion which does not reach for the = stars but is more down to earth. Thank you everyone who made it through this lengthy Email and I look = forward to hearing from anyone with helpful suggestions, comments, = and/or help. Summer Emacs.