From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: David Reitter Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: theming Date: Fri, 8 Jul 2005 13:38:12 +0100 Message-ID: References: <42CC7021.5050606@student.lu.se> <42CCD07F.5010509@student.lu.se> <85pstun1e4.fsf@lola.goethe.zz> NNTP-Posting-Host: main.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v730) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: sea.gmane.org 1120826710 13667 80.91.229.2 (8 Jul 2005 12:45:10 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 8 Jul 2005 12:45:10 +0000 (UTC) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Fri Jul 08 14:45:02 2005 Return-path: Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by ciao.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1DqsDb-0001Bu-6x for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 08 Jul 2005 14:44:35 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1DqsF0-0005HN-T9 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 08 Jul 2005 08:46:02 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1DqsCf-0004NZ-7F for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 08 Jul 2005 08:43:37 -0400 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1DqsCd-0004MB-EC for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 08 Jul 2005 08:43:35 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1DqsCc-0004Kp-Uj for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 08 Jul 2005 08:43:34 -0400 Original-Received: from [64.233.184.201] (helo=wproxy.gmail.com) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1DqsEC-0008T3-Fz for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 08 Jul 2005 08:45:12 -0400 Original-Received: by wproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id 71so413167wri for ; Fri, 08 Jul 2005 05:38:17 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:in-reply-to:references:mime-version:content-type:message-id:cc:content-transfer-encoding:from:subject:date:to:x-mailer; b=OOum2WScdDgNh3+UVgyJEiZZo5kd7nLTwsrOtM1C9C/FFSoCPWr+gFu55BXOlEVaT74YWoRxeKbHs7bAQUXZQrZmBVrV9cQwpnNNbujeWaG2DoCXB7TORn0w/B2tLmg+Apl0z/NSUxePycikZGFd1wP4Fn+rdSOXyHMovdAyB/s= Original-Received: by 10.54.23.59 with SMTP id 59mr1679980wrw; Fri, 08 Jul 2005 05:38:16 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: from ?129.215.174.81? ([129.215.174.81]) by mx.gmail.com with ESMTP id 27sm3404959wrl.2005.07.08.05.38.16; Fri, 08 Jul 2005 05:38:16 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <85pstun1e4.fsf@lola.goethe.zz> Original-To: David Kastrup X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.730) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:40641 X-Report-Spam: http://spam.gmane.org/gmane.emacs.devel:40641 On 7 Jul 2005, at 15:20, David Kastrup wrote: >> Making this process a bit easier, making it easier for the user to >> undo some of these new 'defaults' by defining groups of >> customizations in themes would certainly be desirable. In Aquamacs, this is already the case for many customizations. For some other stuff - for example the pre-installed fontsets and changed menus - this is not possible. That's where we usually tell people to use a standard Carbon Emacs. >> 2. However, over the last two or three months or so, Aquamacs has >> come to do much more than that. It blatantly redefines and advises >> functions, something which can only be undone by means of extra >> customization variables that are checked by the new functions. >> > > Those customization variables can have a default value that lets them > cause different behavior only when under the Aquamacs theme. > > So I don't see this as a principal problem once themes work properly. Yes, but what about re-definitions of existing functions? Defadvice them and put a conditional in the defadvice? > It is a competing fork in the manner that users are not able to make > it work like standard Emacs with minimal effort. That means that the > Aquamacs distribution is only useful for people that don't prefer > standard Emacs behavior. Indeed, we explicitly target people who aren't happy with the standard behavior. That's the whole point. > That's not a good state of affairs. Hmm, I for my part like variety. > If Aquamacs were > theme-controlled, one could easily fold the whole kaboodle back into > the main core, and thus people, say, used to Aquamacs could get the > same behavior under Windows, and there would be no reason to > distribute competing binaries for MacOSX. Well, that would be even better and a long-term goal. When themes work reliably and are well documented, one could work on that. However, as long as the (IMHO sensible) patches that Seiji Zenitani and I have provided (which only pertain to the OS X version) don't find their way into the core or get formally rejected with reasons given, there's little one can do to turn Aquamacs an add-on package.