From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Jean-Christophe Helary Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: *scratch* buffer documentation Date: Fri, 27 Dec 2019 03:14:11 +0900 Message-ID: References: <69AD1F67-BA40-4342-996E-CAC6CC545E2A@traduction-libre.org> <83lfr0v4ib.fsf@gnu.org> <3B5C95CE-77A8-48DA-BD5D-6BD8D8828C30@traduction-libre.org> <83k16jqcpc.fsf@gnu.org> <87h81n2dl2.fsf@gnus.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 13.0 \(3608.40.2.2.4\)) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Injection-Info: blaine.gmane.org; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:195.159.176.226"; logging-data="36361"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@blaine.gmane.org" To: emacs-devel Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Thu Dec 26 19:14:34 2019 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.89) (envelope-from ) id 1ikXeZ-0009Hf-Cw for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 26 Dec 2019 19:14:31 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:55726 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1ikXeY-00048z-5t for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 26 Dec 2019 13:14:30 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:36865) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1ikXeR-00046E-1A for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 26 Dec 2019 13:14:24 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ikXeP-0003qJ-FG for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 26 Dec 2019 13:14:22 -0500 Original-Received: from relay6-d.mail.gandi.net ([217.70.183.198]:48627) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ikXeP-0003pO-9K for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 26 Dec 2019 13:14:21 -0500 X-Originating-IP: 182.251.133.105 Original-Received: from [172.20.10.3] (KD182251133105.au-net.ne.jp [182.251.133.105]) (Authenticated sender: jean.christophe.helary@traduction-libre.org) by relay6-d.mail.gandi.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 279B9C0002 for ; Thu, 26 Dec 2019 18:14:17 +0000 (UTC) In-Reply-To: <87h81n2dl2.fsf@gnus.org> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3608.40.2.2.4) X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] [fuzzy] X-Received-From: 217.70.183.198 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:243667 Archived-At: > On Dec 27, 2019, at 2:36, Lars Ingebrigtsen wrote: >=20 > Jean-Christophe Helary > writes: >=20 >> I just tried something: >>=20 >> create a buffer, type something, kill Emacs. >>=20 >> Of course, when I restarted Emacs the buffer was gone. >>=20 >> In any other editor I'd either have a warning that I'm going to lose >> data or the data would have been automatically saved and would be >> restored when I restarted the editor. >=20 > Are there any other editors where you can open a "buffer" that's not > associated with a file? As far as *UX* is concerned (I'm not concerned about the internals), = pretty much all the editors I use. Including the most basic macos = TextEdit. When you create a new "file" it is just a "buffer" and is not associated = to any material file at that point. And TextEdit will keep the data even = if the file is not created/saved even if TextEdit is "killed" and = restarted. The cool (?) thing about Emacs is that you can do the same thing in 2 = ways: create a buffer visit a non existing *file* when you modify and then kill the two without saving, in one case the = data is gone, in the other case Emacs does not ask you whether you worry = about the contents of the *file* or not, but whether you worry about the = *buffer*... So the main difference in Emacs is that either you start by saying you = want to associate the buffer to a file, or you finish by saying that. = That is a complication that does not exist in (most) other editors. But as far as the user is concerned (and users now have the possibility = to have a lot of experience outside the Emacs realm before coming here, = or while using Emacs) it is not fundamentally different, and not = different from what they experience outside Emacs, especially since the = nature of a buffer is not properly explained. > Most people use editors to edit files, I don't know that. I know that I'd paste a big bunch of data into an = open window in BBEdit and do regex search replaces and then paste the = results back to wherever I need it, and that window will never be saved = to a file. I use TextEdit like that plenty of the time too. There is a = lot of transient information that will be reshuffled to various = applications and I just need a place to type a few things. But I know = that contrary to Emacs, such transient data is mostly safe in other = applications. Jean-Christophe Helary ----------------------------------------------- http://mac4translators.blogspot.com @brandelune