From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: main.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Steven Tamm Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Default Emacs keybindings (was: Re: Menu suggestion) Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2004 01:43:05 -0700 Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+emacs-devel=quimby.gnus.org@gnu.org Message-ID: References: <408CF39D.2000201@math.ku.dk> <5C656B28-9785-11D8-ACD7-000D93505B76@swipnet.se> <6654-Tue27Apr2004084509+0300-eliz@gnu.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: deer.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v613) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: sea.gmane.org 1083055729 11718 80.91.224.253 (27 Apr 2004 08:48:49 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2004 08:48:49 +0000 (UTC) Cc: larsh@math.ku.dk, Eli Zaretskii , emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+emacs-devel=quimby.gnus.org@gnu.org Tue Apr 27 10:48:39 2004 Return-path: Original-Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([80.91.224.244]) by deer.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1BIOGc-0003b2-00 for ; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 10:48:38 +0200 Original-Received: from monty-python.gnu.org ([199.232.76.173]) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1BIOGb-00027z-00 for ; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 10:48:38 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.30) id 1BIOCS-00043H-6a for emacs-devel@quimby.gnus.org; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 04:44:20 -0400 Original-Received: from list by monty-python.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.30) id 1BIOCM-00042l-JY for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 04:44:14 -0400 Original-Received: from mail by monty-python.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.30) id 1BIOBq-0003us-7X for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 04:44:13 -0400 Original-Received: from [17.250.248.89] (helo=smtpout.mac.com) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.30) id 1BIOBJ-0003m0-U4; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 04:43:10 -0400 Original-Received: from mac.com (smtpin08-en2 [10.13.10.153]) by smtpout.mac.com (Xserve/MantshX 2.0) with ESMTP id i3R8h8le008007; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 01:43:08 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: from [10.0.1.201] (c-24-5-11-73.client.comcast.net [24.5.11.73]) (authenticated bits=0) by mac.com (Xserve/smtpin08/MantshX 3.0) with ESMTP id i3R8h7TK018784; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 01:43:08 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: Original-To: "Jan D." X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.613) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.4 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+emacs-devel=quimby.gnus.org@gnu.org Xref: main.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:22218 X-Report-Spam: http://spam.gmane.org/gmane.emacs.devel:22218 > My point being, making CUA default on Mac is not going to give > Mac users what they expect. I'm with you 100%. The only sensible CUA-mode on the Mac wouldn't work; mostly because the default action-modifier is Command and not control. So emacs -nw would never DTRT. Making CUA the default would be counter-productive to me unless it was mapped to Command-Z,X,C, and V (in a sense, regardless of the modifier to which Command is mapped). Since Command can be mapped to Control, Meta, or Alt; the "Mac bindings" should be able to map to either M- or to A-. When I started working with Mac OS X, my initial goal was to make GNU Emacs basically operate in the same way that it did on UNIX and NT; not to quasi-macify parts of it. So I set about fiddling with key mappings so that what my brain thought was C-a was the same on all platforms. Consistency of a standard application across platforms is more valuable to me than consistency of *all* applications within a platform; but I don't think everyone would agree. Hence, all the Mac modifier options. -Steven On Apr 27, 2004, at 12:23 AM, Jan D. wrote: >>> From: "Jan D." >>> Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 15:26:44 +0200 >>> >>> Also, many applications on Mac OS X does handle C-a, C-e, C-f, C-p >>> and >>> so on the way Emacs does. >> >> That's because AFAIK Mac OSX is a descendant of the BSD Unix family. >> Quite a few Unix programs support Emacs-style key bindings. > > That is probably one reason. But the Mail.app and TextEdit.app on Mac > OSX > are not descendant from any BSD programs, so Apple is extending these > bindings to new programs as well. > > My point being, making CUA default on Mac is not going to give > Mac users what they expect. Mac should not be said to use the same > "agreed" key bindings as Gnome/KDE/MS Windows in this regard. Now if > CUA mode could use M-x/M-x/M-v on Mac, then we could discuss about > making it the default on Macs also. > > Jan D. > > > > _______________________________________________ > Emacs-devel mailing list > Emacs-devel@gnu.org > http://mail.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-devel