From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: chad Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Emacs contributions, C and Lisp Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2014 16:43:03 -0800 Message-ID: References: <52FCD2B4.5080006@yandex.ru> <52FD9F1D.50205@yandex.ru> <83mwhucg1h.fsf@gnu.org> <878ute589i.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> <83d2iqc84m.fsf@gnu.org> <87wqgxkcr9.fsf@yandex.ru> <834n41db0d.fsf@gnu.org> <52FE2985.4070703@yandex.ru> <831tz5daes.fsf@gnu.org> <8738jlohd6.fsf@yandex.ru> <83txc1bl83.fsf@gnu.org> <5300189A.9090208@yandex.ru> <83wqgv9fbj.fsf@gnu.org> <20140216180712.236069f6@forcix.jorgenschaefer.de> <83sirj9cyp.fsf@gnu.org> <20140217203145.71a849f7@forcix.jorgenschaefer.de> <837g8t8ouc.fsf@gnu.org> <87mwho68qu.fsf@newcastle.ac.uk> <83k3cs7898.fsf@gnu.org> <8761ocsai9.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 7.1 \(1827\)) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1392770598 11106 80.91.229.3 (19 Feb 2014 00:43:18 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2014 00:43:18 +0000 (UTC) To: emacs Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Wed Feb 19 01:43:26 2014 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1WFvG1-0008OM-VM for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Wed, 19 Feb 2014 01:43:26 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:55591 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1WFvG1-0007CS-KA for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 18 Feb 2014 19:43:25 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:49520) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1WFvFt-0007C4-KF for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 18 Feb 2014 19:43:22 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1WFvFl-00057a-Oq for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 18 Feb 2014 19:43:17 -0500 Original-Received: from mail-pd0-x230.google.com ([2607:f8b0:400e:c02::230]:41760) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1WFvFl-00057L-H1 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 18 Feb 2014 19:43:09 -0500 Original-Received: by mail-pd0-f176.google.com with SMTP id w10so16905974pde.7 for ; Tue, 18 Feb 2014 16:43:08 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=content-type:mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=I/YKhnd7GV1WWgv0RKgx5BulEqBqkNOgljoY+49oztA=; b=GrdqDykeiw1rD1PJ3mRj2eeCON9MNO2tjSWvf1U79N0TXhsh4yGJAuHfp0cUZTOL3J A/lVCIdS1Kkbajs36AK+X78lmb4k/HGKgsKw7Heaxk7MNo8PBkfzxx3Vr40+KAn5TZtm He6Hyv/Lxb6lW3XJgvOaYBHHZDmH8fkCZ4Pvz+WhfC6xaWCrXCvjouLS41vhMchOZ/IE 4orn9BeW0kTyvKzEQsHdT6scut4quRWnibPl5wRYjK7O0OzFzReiWHi9fDp7xAXJZxRl g5Q+86zzxtMBigPvfGovleNTkiU2sK8b+DKptycfgBuTksXN7pWzOyXVmbbJMjZ4rQKo EPMg== X-Received: by 10.68.162.66 with SMTP id xy2mr36464512pbb.46.1392770587831; Tue, 18 Feb 2014 16:43:07 -0800 (PST) Original-Received: from [172.16.49.226] (50-194-51-49-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net. [50.194.51.49]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id lh13sm153208784pab.4.2014.02.18.16.43.05 for (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Tue, 18 Feb 2014 16:43:06 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <8761ocsai9.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1827) X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Error: Malformed IPv6 address (bad octet value). X-Received-From: 2607:f8b0:400e:c02::230 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:169747 Archived-At: On 18 Feb 2014, at 07:31, David Kastrup wrote: > Eli Zaretskii writes: >=20 >>> Incidentally, I say "change" and not "patch". Submitting a change = these >>> days generally means "clone, branch, pull request". >>=20 >> Sorry, I don't understand the subtlety. >=20 > I think it's a paraphrase of "real developers use GitHub", a service > running on proprietary software and having a variety of commercial > offerings, including a rather popular "take it or leave it" zero > pricetag offering. I think it=92s a paraphrase of =93lots of developers are used to a model = where they submit changes that are taken, with or without modification, = rather than a process whereby they suggest a change and then begin a = dialog=94. Github is definitely one of the promulgators of this model, = but it=92s certainly not the only one. Without digging into real data (sorry), I=92d say that around 33-50% of = the changes submitted to emacs-devel from new people don=92t land, = either because of explicit rejection or because the effective hurdle is = high enough that people don=92t get over it. I=92d further say that at = least half of those failures to land result from platform-specific = issues. There are good reasons for the policies that create these = hurdles, but they surely make it much harder for people to start working = on emacs, even compared to other free/libre software projects. I hope that helps, ~Chad