From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.ciao.gmane.io!not-for-mail From: Fu Yuan Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: PL support Date: Mon, 11 May 2020 09:38:09 -0400 Message-ID: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 (1.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="ciao.gmane.io:159.69.161.202"; logging-data="106859"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: Richard Stallman , seb@k-7.ch, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Stefan Monnier Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Mon May 11 15:49:04 2020 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1jY8nn-000Rf9-A4 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Mon, 11 May 2020 15:49:03 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:45218 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jY8nm-0003q7-0o for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Mon, 11 May 2020 09:49:02 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:49754) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jY8dM-0001q7-7G for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 11 May 2020 09:38:16 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-qt1-x82a.google.com ([2607:f8b0:4864:20::82a]:39351) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jY8dK-0000Il-LK; Mon, 11 May 2020 09:38:15 -0400 Original-Received: by mail-qt1-x82a.google.com with SMTP id l1so4367886qtp.6; Mon, 11 May 2020 06:38:13 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=content-transfer-encoding:from:mime-version:subject:date:message-id :references:cc:in-reply-to:to; bh=c+RkKxEweurQ6J2ayaG5yUEH/Dm2FGJBKgJOYk+tQZQ=; b=Osn5z58TiizJtSOTyshdgwb/gwYTnDajoQhJ6pF/RojIdyDR0+6cQDwEQ4uNvP5iV2 zC0So9H4Pk+oNmHF/cKp58t0H4Hv8YqoHDfBhwTshJsG4shgzZlty9IEQaTNxissdi0f D6E/pvFP58yqAHiW4O/nosf+XFv0gvieCohSave+Vc6vCLhoWEm6Qps8eQNWMEZC28bf G3KBy6dqSC9j16OuGbKcsMau1UthDK9TurHccLJwDBvPh51ifr8hZPOCOQrwY0ZvKDuB wN7H8bJsETE0nlWYuS/XhrRq6OxpIyeF9lA/Wkz2FxHdZONQNuy/sbt/Do+d9z4pVlbX 5+og== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:content-transfer-encoding:from:mime-version :subject:date:message-id:references:cc:in-reply-to:to; bh=c+RkKxEweurQ6J2ayaG5yUEH/Dm2FGJBKgJOYk+tQZQ=; b=UqP1FjU2zbZqs+piOi+mPZoadSN6BalEceZioAI/CgtJpt5gyhSmAENrGfjLc3+LA9 DKOFKXCMrBCWsiATfNqCjtC0yUIPRJsoFxGUyiAEmpGYtUEGOpIaSTlOTldCWsMUpb1y kg8UTpaT1RouREf5n8jE/gDcHW3KKiHGCYBvCOajxogZBAO+D2y4PJaUo0NL7dPhIbdf hgndJgxCqKCdKTb/UxGgcvlrNhxKS6A5mR3lYtrS4BZeG5B676GxbjMqZ7f8XQRnEzUk +W2JbYEvVkkjY/7+XFiU543v4cyvAo6iDURtApU2+uZ3cjDlTFsVgjAvIoW380EslXLJ lfsA== X-Gm-Message-State: AGi0Puby21/U/mjJDaQhJRW1s7XWJ8wOTyNb8cteGhDsVgWMjtaw4uuL +KRBKYFoLebeO7oMsQ4gNPk= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APiQypLcruEHwDdpqDDhbuOFtEoq6S3uX0dyPyXg4K2d+unqdtXkGA85qjfq8YJQ0Ij9Rraj3CQX3w== X-Received: by 2002:ac8:6695:: with SMTP id d21mr16624455qtp.176.1589204293185; Mon, 11 May 2020 06:38:13 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: from [192.168.1.3] (c-174-60-229-153.hsd1.pa.comcast.net. [174.60.229.153]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id a139sm8311947qkg.107.2020.05.11.06.38.12 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Mon, 11 May 2020 06:38:12 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: iPhone Mail (17D50) Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2607:f8b0:4864:20::82a; envelope-from=casouri@gmail.com; helo=mail-qt1-x82a.google.com X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: No matching host in p0f cache. That's all we know. X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001 autolearn=_AUTOLEARN X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:249781 Archived-At: > =E5=9C=A8 2020=E5=B9=B45=E6=9C=8810=E6=97=A5=EF=BC=8C=E4=B8=8B=E5=8D=8811:= 56=EF=BC=8CStefan Monnier =E5=86=99=E9=81=93=EF=BC= =9A >=20 > =EF=BB=BFRichard wrote: >> Some contributors are eagerly planning a sort of automatic facility to >> "install external tools." I'm disappointed to have to say that this >> raises problems at various levels. I doubt there is an acceptable way >> to do it. >=20 > There is no doubt that acceptable ways to do it exist. >=20 > As a matter of fact, we *already* do that, typically in the form of > instructions in `Commentary:`, `INSTALL`, manuals, messages in > mailing-lists, etc... >=20 > These instructions raise various problems, indeed. >=20 > Other ways to "do that" would solve some of those problems, preserve > some of them, and introduce yet new ones. >=20 > There's a vast design space here, with many points in there which should > be very much acceptable to our usually conservative sensitivity of > "don't do anything without a very explicit user consent". >=20 > Daniel wrote: >> You seem to be imagining a world in which Emacs installing external softw= are >> means that it runs distribution package manager tools or plops binaries i= n >> /usr/bin. You can instead bundle known-good versions of external tools wi= th >> Emacs and run them in a controlled way from filesystem locations that Ema= cs >> controls. Downloading revisions of these tools that hash to entries on an= >> Emacs whitelist is equivalent. >=20 > FWIW, I probably wouldn't like a solution where we bundle binaries of > external tools, since then we'd be bound (either by the license, or > morally anyway) to include the source as well, and then we'd have to > keep it up-to-date (and deal with somewhat automatic updates and > whatnot). >=20 > This said, that is still a very much acceptable point in the > design space for some cases. >=20 > A very different design point might be to try to guess the kind of > "package management" in use (msys, apt, guix, ...), then build > a sequence of commands to pass to that package management, show it to > the user, and ask them to run them (or to confirm that they want Emacs > to run them). >=20 > Another design point is to display to the user a text box explaining > what they need to install and where they can find instructions to do so. >=20 > ... >=20 >=20 > Stefan >=20 Does that mean a external-tool.el that automatically downloads executables i= s not viable? Yuan=