From: Richard Stallman <rms@gnu.org>
To: Suhail Singh <suhailsingh247@gmail.com>
Cc: suhailsingh247@gmail.com, bjorn.bidar@thaodan.de, emacs-devel@gnu.org
Subject: Re: Improve access to documentation in Info format
Date: Tue, 31 Dec 2024 23:08:44 -0500 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <E1tSq2G-0007ZO-Ep@fencepost.gnu.org> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <87zfl2mhoz.fsf@gmail.com> (message from Suhail Singh on Wed, 11 Dec 2024 09:13:00 -0500)
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> Could you comment on the user-facing features that would no longer work
> with such "visibly wrong" translated-from-other-formats Info manuals?
Here's an example. Three important Texinfo constructs, used in every manual,
are @dfn, @emph and @var. In printed output, they are all equivalent:
they put text in italics.
But in plain text output, without fonts, they do different things.
@dfn puts "..." around the text. @emph puts _..._ around the text.
And @var upcases the text.
Using italic for all three purposes is clear, because readers can tell
from the context which meaning the italics means. But in the absence
of italic font, these constructs have to be indicated in other ways,
and there is no one way that makes all three clear.
Anoter case is @code and @samp. In printed output, they use the
fixed-width code font. @samp adds paired singlequotes, and @code does
not.
In plain text output, without distinction by fondt, the best handling
I can think of is to is output `...' for both @code and Ssamp. It
does not distinguish them from each other, but it at least
distinguishes both of them from ordinary text.
"Natural" markup notations that try to resemble ordinary punctuation
have trouble making these distinctions. They are based on WYGIWYW,
What You Get Is What You Write. So if several markup constructs get
you the same thing in one output format, you have to write them the
same way in the source, so they all get you the same thing in each
output format.
I am not saying it is _impossible_ to extend any of those markup
systems to make these distinctions. Quite the contrary, I hope
someone will invent a way, and implement it. Then, with luck, we
could perhaps adopt that markup system for source code for our
manuals.
But this would involve making the markup system less "natural".
Untll someone invents that, we can't use a natural markup notation
to replace Texinfo format.
--
Dr Richard Stallman (https://stallman.org)
Chief GNUisance of the GNU Project (https://gnu.org)
Founder, Free Software Foundation (https://fsf.org)
Internet Hall-of-Famer (https://internethalloffame.org)
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2025-01-01 4:08 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 118+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2024-11-30 12:56 Proposal: Include C Manual from RMS in Emacs git, and/or release Jeremy Bryant
2024-11-30 13:25 ` Philip Kaludercic
2024-11-30 13:38 ` Arsen Arsenović
2024-11-30 14:12 ` Eli Zaretskii
2024-11-30 18:08 ` Arsen Arsenović
2024-11-30 20:05 ` Eli Zaretskii
2024-11-30 21:09 ` [External] : " Drew Adams
2024-12-01 6:15 ` Eli Zaretskii
2024-12-02 3:00 ` Texinfo reputation (was: Re: [External] : Re: Proposal: Include C Manual from RMS in Emacs git, and/or release) Max Nikulin
2024-12-02 12:47 ` Eli Zaretskii
2024-12-03 2:51 ` Texinfo reputation Max Nikulin
2024-12-03 12:38 ` Eli Zaretskii
2024-12-03 18:51 ` Dr. Arne Babenhauserheide
2024-12-05 4:56 ` Max Nikulin
2024-12-05 7:45 ` Dr. Arne Babenhauserheide
2024-12-06 4:47 ` Richard Stallman
2024-12-01 9:53 ` Proposal: Include C Manual from RMS in Emacs git, and/or release Arsen Arsenović
2024-12-01 10:12 ` Eli Zaretskii
2024-12-01 10:54 ` Arsen Arsenović
2024-12-01 13:04 ` Johan Myréen
2024-12-04 6:09 ` Richard Stallman
2024-11-30 13:50 ` Eli Zaretskii
2024-12-01 4:02 ` Sean Whitton
2024-12-01 7:45 ` Eli Zaretskii
2024-12-01 8:36 ` Sean Whitton
2024-12-01 10:01 ` Eli Zaretskii
2024-12-01 11:13 ` Sean Whitton
2024-12-05 5:05 ` Making the GNU C Manual easier to find in Info Richard Stallman
2024-12-05 6:30 ` Eli Zaretskii
2024-12-05 7:25 ` Integration of Info manuals in programming modes; was: " Dr. Arne Babenhauserheide
2024-12-05 7:46 ` Integration of Info manuals in programming modes Eli Zaretskii
2024-12-05 8:52 ` Visuwesh
2024-12-05 9:14 ` Eli Zaretskii
2024-12-05 9:49 ` Visuwesh
2024-12-05 11:17 ` Eli Zaretskii
2024-12-05 11:28 ` Visuwesh
2024-12-05 12:01 ` Eli Zaretskii
2024-12-05 12:39 ` Visuwesh
2024-12-05 14:26 ` Eli Zaretskii
2024-12-15 8:26 ` Visuwesh
2024-12-08 8:13 ` Integration of Info manuals in programming modes, " James Thomas
2024-12-08 8:38 ` James Thomas
2024-12-08 11:34 ` Eli Zaretskii
2024-12-08 20:10 ` Björn Bidar
[not found] ` <87zfl60wbw.fsf@>
2024-12-08 20:46 ` Eli Zaretskii
2024-12-11 4:32 ` Richard Stallman
2024-12-13 23:54 ` Björn Bidar
[not found] ` <87msgzp2a9.fsf@>
2024-12-14 19:11 ` Dr. Arne Babenhauserheide
2024-12-16 4:02 ` Richard Stallman
[not found] ` <86msh5b48w.fsf@gmx.net>
2024-12-10 1:08 ` James Thomas
2024-12-05 10:06 ` Stephen Berman
2024-12-05 15:07 ` Dr. Arne Babenhauserheide
2024-12-05 16:04 ` Eli Zaretskii
2024-12-09 4:58 ` Integration of Info manuals in programming modes; was: Making the GNU C Manual easier to find in Info Richard Stallman
2024-12-09 22:49 ` Dr. Arne Babenhauserheide
2024-12-11 4:35 ` Richard Stallman
2024-12-02 4:10 ` Proposal: Include C Manual from RMS in Emacs git, and/or release Richard Stallman
2024-12-02 12:57 ` Eli Zaretskii
2024-12-03 23:03 ` [ELPA] New package c-intro-and-ref -- was " Jeremy Bryant
2024-12-04 12:33 ` Eli Zaretskii
2024-12-04 22:58 ` Jeremy Bryant
2024-12-05 5:45 ` Eli Zaretskii
2024-12-07 13:30 ` Improving info-look.el for (c) -was- " Jeremy Bryant
2024-12-07 15:09 ` Eli Zaretskii
2024-12-05 5:03 ` Max Nikulin
2024-12-05 18:47 ` Philip Kaludercic
2024-12-05 19:04 ` Eli Zaretskii
2024-12-06 10:44 ` Philip Kaludercic
2024-12-06 12:10 ` Eli Zaretskii
2024-12-06 22:40 ` Philip Kaludercic
2024-12-05 19:17 ` Stefan Monnier
2024-12-05 20:35 ` chad
2024-12-06 4:57 ` Visuwesh
2024-12-06 10:42 ` Philip Kaludercic
2024-12-06 14:58 ` Max Nikulin
2024-12-06 16:30 ` Eli Zaretskii
2024-12-08 16:41 ` Max Nikulin
2024-12-08 5:15 ` Richard Stallman
2024-12-08 7:15 ` Xiyue Deng
2024-12-08 16:50 ` Max Nikulin
2024-12-11 4:32 ` Richard Stallman
2024-12-12 3:22 ` Debian package with GNU manuals (was: Re: [ELPA] New package c-intro-and-ref) Max Nikulin
2024-12-04 20:02 ` [ELPA] New package c-intro-and-ref -- was Re: Proposal: Include C Manual from RMS in Emacs git, and/or release Suhail Singh
[not found] ` <87wmgf9h70.fsf@jeremybryant.net>
2024-12-04 23:52 ` Suhail Singh
2024-12-07 13:21 ` Jeremy Bryant
2024-12-08 20:44 ` Suhail Singh
2024-12-07 4:22 ` Richard Stallman
2024-12-07 12:29 ` Jeremy Bryant
2024-12-07 14:55 ` Björn Bidar
[not found] ` <87h67fr18v.fsf@>
2024-12-10 5:38 ` Richard Stallman
2024-12-13 23:44 ` Björn Bidar
[not found] ` <87r06bp2qm.fsf@>
2024-12-14 21:19 ` Dr. Arne Babenhauserheide
2024-12-15 6:31 ` Eli Zaretskii
2024-12-16 4:02 ` Richard Stallman
2024-12-05 5:05 ` Richard Stallman
2024-12-05 6:27 ` Eli Zaretskii
2024-12-03 20:07 ` Björn Bidar
[not found] ` <87cyi8h6n8.fsf@>
2024-12-07 16:02 ` Björn Bidar
2024-12-08 5:10 ` Richard Stallman
2024-12-08 20:07 ` Björn Bidar
2024-12-09 15:11 ` Improve access to documentation in Info format (was: Proposal: Include C Manual from RMS in Emacs git, and/or release) Suhail Singh
2024-12-11 4:37 ` Richard Stallman
2024-12-11 14:13 ` Improve access to documentation in Info format Suhail Singh
2025-01-01 4:08 ` Richard Stallman [this message]
2025-01-01 21:04 ` Suhail Singh
2025-01-03 4:32 ` Richard Stallman
2025-01-03 5:27 ` Suhail Singh
2025-01-04 0:55 ` Björn Bidar
[not found] ` <67788718.170a0220.116636.4451SMTPIN_ADDED_BROKEN@mx.google.com>
2025-01-04 1:28 ` Suhail Singh
2025-01-04 2:20 ` Björn Bidar
[not found] ` <67789ad4.050a0220.196b31.88fdSMTPIN_ADDED_BROKEN@mx.google.com>
2025-01-04 2:57 ` Suhail Singh
2025-01-05 4:16 ` Richard Stallman
2024-12-13 23:41 ` Björn Bidar
[not found] ` <87v7vnp2vx.fsf@>
2024-12-14 21:16 ` Dr. Arne Babenhauserheide
2024-12-16 4:03 ` Richard Stallman
2024-12-16 4:03 ` Richard Stallman
[not found] ` <874j3e2b2i.fsf@>
2024-12-11 4:32 ` Proposal: Include C Manual from RMS in Emacs git, and/or release Richard Stallman
2024-12-08 23:03 ` John ff
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