From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Richard Stallman Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: "About Emacs" page Date: Sun, 22 Sep 2024 00:09:45 -0400 Message-ID: References: Reply-To: rms@gnu.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=Utf-8 Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="22524"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Summer Emacs Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Sun Sep 22 06:10:03 2024 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1ssDv7-0005fR-R4 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sun, 22 Sep 2024 06:10:01 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1ssDuw-0007Pl-3B; Sun, 22 Sep 2024 00:09:50 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1ssDus-0007Oc-7I for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 22 Sep 2024 00:09:46 -0400 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1ssDur-0004ky-VF; Sun, 22 Sep 2024 00:09:45 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=Date:References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From: mime-version; bh=AooMOmNkWvr97pX7dqmWUF/xLhcRVGz3BRYsYoWt/nE=; b=EbR79r+cdpjq VMeQW+q9zY+WuQ+E+KiLNKubdWcwrUqobdiyGPCzONXJiLeWnqReB9f54oeBKtzkimZ9QnU7q5rDL Kt6nxq9T+v0f+DkIZnluTUXTcYWgDY2zKO4EJpw2DkH+MHKTq2Nl2LpXrUeDXQz4gZc15nkJ65Tuj lbaSXoJjwt5KJq2tgfMIdLI5RbaFVbFCU2HwbI7zQNpy2xUJJB2Vht6dPYIXMmW6KnAE+1YGEASkG OCxXiGfuqYOs4wbyXk1rr0+c9+Po7pbJKOP5Glsnn++rlrntlo43DHHgw6RZfOfTf+zUhDrG7P2+S kx+DJZZFjU8Fb5w4k72LFw==; Original-Received: from rms by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1ssDur-00023n-0B; Sun, 22 Sep 2024 00:09:45 -0400 In-Reply-To: (message from Summer Emacs on Thu, 19 Sep 2024 12:19:53 +0200) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:323907 Archived-At: [[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider ]]] [[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, ]]] [[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]] > Sure! I’m talking about the About Emacs page you first see when > you boot up Emacs the first time. (C-h C-a). I will detail more > thoughts about it in another email in the thread. That page is the way it is because there is a lot of information we want to show people right at the start. Some for our purposes, some because users (not ONLY NEW users!) may find it helpful. We tried to set up this page to make those things prominent and easy to find. > 2) GNU and Freedom - There’s a philosophy here about Emacs, I > recognise that, but is it really what most people want to read about > when they first open up Emacs? Teaching people this philosophy is high priority for us. Emacs is part of the GNU system. and giving freedom is he purpose of the GNU system. So it behooves us to present that in a prominent way. This is not necessarily the only way or place to present it. If we see a better way or place, we can switch to that. Or do both. > Getting into the philosophy of Emacs might be important (I > think it is at times), but it’s not foremost on people’s minds when > they first open Emacs. The hope is that reading about that issue will make it foremost on people’s minds, or at least closer to foremost. > 3) Absence of Warranty - Okay. Legal. Important to understand but..a > little scary. If you’re trying a new product, you don’t want one of > the FIRST things you see to say “use at your own risk”. Our legal advice was to make this very visible. We must do so. > 5) Getting New Versions - Good link to have, not so helpful at the top > though. Put it at the bottom below the Emacs philosophy/legal section. > 6) Ordering Manuals - This is good! But, it should be under the new > users/Emacs tutorials in the same grouping. It makes sense to put it > there as it’s the same subject. It’ll still be in the top section that > way but grouped better. > 7) Emacs Tutorial - That should be right at the top below the new > newbie section which I plan on finishing sometime in the coming > weeks. The newbie section will also have a link to the Emacs tutorial > and info about how to get back to the newbie pages. > 9) Emacs Manual - Good. I like. In depth, interesting, but very > difficult for a new user to read through. They have to understand the > basics first. I think that should go right under the Emacs tutorial > which would be right under the newbie users section at the top. These changes could be considered. Where to put them is significant only in a practical way; if a different placement works better, that's fine to change. > 8) Emacs Guided Tour - this is, again, is a great section, > however…it’s confusing to new users (as explained in one of my last > emails). It should be near the bottom of the top section because it’s > not *really* a guided tour. Should we change its contents to make it a real guided tour? Should we call it something else that fits the facts better? What name do you suggest? -- Dr Richard Stallman (https://stallman.org) Chief GNUisance of the GNU Project (https://gnu.org) Founder, Free Software Foundation (https://fsf.org) Internet Hall-of-Famer (https://internethalloffame.org)