From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Richard Stallman Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: as for Calc and the math library Date: Sun, 18 Aug 2024 12:38:47 -0400 Message-ID: References: <864j7qhup6.fsf@gnu.org> <87a5hi0yts.fsf@valhala.localdomain> <86y152ge0b.fsf@gnu.org> <86jzgjfwqp.fsf@gnu.org> <87sev78arx.fsf@gmail.com> <86le0z89u1.fsf@gnu.org> <87o75v87n1.fsf@gmail.com> <86frr786k7.fsf@gnu.org> <861q2q8e18.fsf@gnu.org> Reply-To: rms@gnu.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=Utf-8 Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="2210"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org To: arthur miller Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Sun Aug 18 18:39:37 2024 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1sfiwL-0000NM-IP for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sun, 18 Aug 2024 18:39:37 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1sfivZ-0008BE-OL; Sun, 18 Aug 2024 12:38:49 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1sfivX-0008Ay-UU for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 18 Aug 2024 12:38:48 -0400 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1sfivX-0005s9-GU; Sun, 18 Aug 2024 12:38:47 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=Date:References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From: mime-version; bh=7FMwFjyKYShBbMInjyX4Otk01oeDaG5LHpb9AtzMp88=; b=NAbb6TAbfQfN 5wJSY2BNZZp5qgrbv52znStLYr3U6wZZQehlm+VAQmBppnB3k9Y6DJn9JrSZf+YS8ZdW5Cqbh6gwi QKxG4Zp7auF2Gu5qe8cyYb/FJIfiVoXcwtCM5eNtjapAOJKP1D6Xn8dgIvNaBf/zfKi6Z51PAyeWF 044QXL24bH7jgbIq+td1wwU9LFaE4a8/bT4Ra/qotxob3hA7s0ge3mDEY9l912i6iWI+OvD4W6N5l p8Vr4nJkMhB0lbLRGcnAi3kLogMQ318TFge8BIrx51d7/Z0oJ/2IOvx9YjhqlO3jlge0kKFxAkL+j rpngEedhrf8NhAqJmieueg==; Original-Received: from rms by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1sfivX-0007yr-0M; Sun, 18 Aug 2024 12:38:47 -0400 In-Reply-To: (message from arthur miller on Thu, 15 Aug 2024 20:09:56 +0000) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:322896 Archived-At: [[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider ]]] [[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, ]]] [[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]] > >No. What we need is the declaration _by_the_library_ being loaded > >that it complies. It is not an agreement between Emacs and the > >library, it's a _requirement_ on our part that only the library itself > >can fulfill. > I have seen your previous answers to others, and I do understand > the point you make, but I think the argument fails because a > module can be just a proxy to a non-free library. If I can put it > in other words, I wonder if it is a "false sense of security", > because it is a guarantee by the person who writes the C module, > not the 3rd party library they link to. Of course they are > violating the license if they link to a non-free library, but that > we are agreeing about we can't prevent. You're right, and this is a possible problem, but it raises a real copyleft compliance issue only in a specific kind of occasion: when someone writes such an intermediary module that loads a nonfree library, _and distributes that intermediary module_ for such use. Just writing such an intermediary module and using it oneself does not raise a copyleft compliance issue, because GPLv3 says one can make any sort of modificatoin and use it privately -- even actually copying in nonfree code. Where the copyleft requirement comes into pkay is for making a modified version and distributing it to others. So it could be good to keep an eye on the modules that people are releasing, to make sure they do not load in other nonfree code. If they do, the FSF should tell their distributors to stop. Given this situation, a spcial label as a flag for "this library is free" might be useful, We just have to remember taht such a flag label is not proof of anything. Its presence is only a statement (which can be false) of intent that the module be entirely GPL3-compatible free code and that it link in only GPL3-compatible other modules. -- Dr Richard Stallman (https://stallman.org) Chief GNUisance of the GNU Project (https://gnu.org) Founder, Free Software Foundation (https://fsf.org) Internet Hall-of-Famer (https://internethalloffame.org)