From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Richard Stallman Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: What's missing in ELisp that makes people want to use cl-lib? Date: Sun, 12 Nov 2023 22:07:30 -0500 Message-ID: References: <871qd8sfdx.fsf@posteo.net> <838r7g8pys.fsf@gnu.org> <87bkcbrgnr.fsf@posteo.net> <25924.21015.19614.951576@orion.rgrjr.com> <87bkc4jpja.fsf@dataswamp.org> <12da6bcb-1818-7fbe-12af-8d4607724332@gutov.dev> <87il6bt4z0.fsf@yahoo.com> <87y1f6s3eb.fsf@yahoo.com> <878r75sqby.fsf@yahoo.com> Reply-To: rms@gnu.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=Utf-8 Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="34127"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org To: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Jo=C3=A3o_T=C3=A1vora?= Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Mon Nov 13 04:08:27 2023 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1r2NJK-0008dk-Lg for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Mon, 13 Nov 2023 04:08:26 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1r2NIV-0005Vd-Ra; Sun, 12 Nov 2023 22:07:35 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1r2NIS-0005Sh-Du for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 12 Nov 2023 22:07:33 -0500 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1r2NIR-0007w3-0D; Sun, 12 Nov 2023 22:07:31 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=Date:References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From: mime-version; bh=JETKIQehUOpMJU3wp1wLT3iETy3KABpO1GTHXUm3sdo=; b=QnUJgKr6E9co ONVARUBTBEBQzRKXL9KcYFArrjn+0/1LkzQo4eguC+KWoUimmTpfpMDAh/ChruggQBPWqjpK3nmq9 +H8Wu61vEySYXrg4l2B+zLEph3vmES/v0e6WlPu1ahyMgNyBJZ5t3Jv5SGT943ba27dWRTVsfJhMr Va0jksBXjPM/Xh+ycyPv8eW/y2QWBkNQGcNDu2epYfAzPD3soZ5c9A0ctf7CLZHfc2udIPTvleKMV Dkw/zsrYoHQ+fWGbb8A9ZWcombpOEQsOsb9+A4Kt2Zn7Sw7inLNBzzLbz1yELy3LpairPItyxU/5V dKFx3P43Ab8gz3Hrc2edEQ==; Original-Received: from rms by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1r2NIQ-0004Cy-IZ; Sun, 12 Nov 2023 22:07:30 -0500 In-Reply-To: (message from =?iso-8859-1?Q?Jo=C3=A3o_T=C3=A1vora?= on Fri, 10 Nov 2023 14:18:18 +0000) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:312683 Archived-At: [[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider ]]] [[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, ]]] [[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]] > You didn't say "list manipulation function" . You wrote "No Emacs > built-in takes them". That's false. Take make-hash-table. Oh noes, > looks just like CL. Guess you're going to hand-roll hash tables > now, right? :-) The tone of your message is harsh and contemptuous. You can disagree with him, nut please disagree respectfully. It is not unusual for people who have basically valid points to overstate them and thus make an incorrect assertion. We all make such minor mistakes like that. To keep the discussion civil, and aim for a useful conclusion, we should not exaggerate the importance of those minor mistakes. The usefuk goal is to see what the real difference is -- even if it is not a simple absolute rule without exceptions. -- Dr Richard Stallman (https://stallman.org) Chief GNUisance of the GNU Project (https://gnu.org) Founder, Free Software Foundation (https://fsf.org) Internet Hall-of-Famer (https://internethalloffame.org)