From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Richard Stallman Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Lisp files that load cl-lib in problematical ways Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2023 22:08:55 -0400 Message-ID: References: <87il8betof.fsf@dataswamp.org> <83fs3dgxv8.fsf@gnu.org> <835y38qvlg.fsf@gnu.org> <87bkcx6eci.fsf@dataswamp.org> <83ttqnm4ti.fsf@gnu.org> <87r0lqoo5x.fsf@dataswamp.org> <83msweu76j.fsf@gnu.org> <87o7gungi1.fsf@dataswamp.org> Reply-To: rms@gnu.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=Utf-8 Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="10952"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Emanuel Berg Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Mon Oct 23 04:10:15 2023 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1qukOV-0002eR-AE for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Mon, 23 Oct 2023 04:10:15 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qukNI-0003bB-Un; Sun, 22 Oct 2023 22:09:00 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qukNE-0003aD-Sa for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 22 Oct 2023 22:08:57 -0400 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qukND-0007O6-If; Sun, 22 Oct 2023 22:08:55 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=Date:References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From: mime-version; bh=Ap4y12Z6vsl+gVRBlZ90xJ7RjGxDc6t2pJjeigziryI=; b=q/l9TYTmDdx0 qj8zBQC0vt2ZtFVDt6p10wLI5KwPpFpIgSofnVFa2Iinm/K5iiE0L4j9R0txatxkWZ+Q3X7/rh/Ek Z/01exnYhh2Ero9HL+0NrFwKe5l1BLw05Eso9Hthi2l1LX7govAyivUUYevPk5TIQ2TPVCFsJu1+L 7lZkcL+qzE9zEnb79gsLwpybITPfW3fnYTF9c4vXfeZiunOEnsGGXOSKLrfsgKtOlX+4DXTaHTb9Z 7pINF5UQJLO0cynnl2ymMnDAhivfNQehRBSjPgb7yLmOZOxxTJNt5N06Bjlecla2RkRngrbHPMRnt dxHwQQ5t0kI3A3BjFp/2lA==; Original-Received: from rms by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qukND-0006He-5Z; Sun, 22 Oct 2023 22:08:55 -0400 In-Reply-To: <87o7gungi1.fsf@dataswamp.org> (message from Emanuel Berg on Fri, 20 Oct 2023 05:02:14 +0200) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:311691 Archived-At: [[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider ]]] [[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, ]]] [[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]] > But as we have seen in practice it _is_ loaded, be it by the > debugger, by native compilation, or any other package or piece > of Elisp that uses it, Let's fix the debugger, and native compilation, not to load cl-lib. It's not so bad if you load a specialized package that serves your code and it uses cl-lib. But the debugger can be loaded to debug anything, even programs you have nothing to do with. It's rude for the debugger to load cl-lib. Likewise for native compilation. You might recompile anything. -- Dr Richard Stallman (https://stallman.org) Chief GNUisance of the GNU Project (https://gnu.org) Founder, Free Software Foundation (https://fsf.org) Internet Hall-of-Famer (https://internethalloffame.org)