From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Richard Stallman Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Emacs design and architecture Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2023 16:26:24 -0400 Message-ID: References: <83r0n4rj78.fsf@gnu.org> <83cyynpmvd.fsf@gnu.org> <838r99mh40.fsf@gnu.org> <83h6nwlmt4.fsf@gnu.org> <456d12ac-ecf4-3de4-56bb-a2440580777f@gutov.dev> <83a5tokmsv.fsf@gnu.org> <83sf7fki5g.fsf@gnu.org> <43d642a8-d1b4-05ed-41e0-6e52d22df2d4@gutov.dev> <83edizjn0v.fsf@gnu.org> <0518f65b-1dd1-6923-8497-da4d3aeac631@gutov.dev> <1cff05f8-df80-b776-5175-dd27a6e59799@gutov.dev> <87wmwqiax9.fsf@whxvd.name> Reply-To: rms@gnu.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=Utf-8 Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="35789"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: iota@whxvd.name, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: chad Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Thu Sep 21 22:26:59 2023 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1qjQGI-0008ye-I0 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Thu, 21 Sep 2023 22:26:58 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qjQFo-0005ZB-Ma; Thu, 21 Sep 2023 16:26:28 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qjQFl-0005Yt-00 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 21 Sep 2023 16:26:25 -0400 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qjQFk-0000SV-GT; Thu, 21 Sep 2023 16:26:24 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=Date:References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From: mime-version; bh=33HoBs4UfJn5ZrY0Buu2O4mMTGizeJYvVj12safvyoM=; b=nw1iNDna7q54 nqxBOnPFPBitBXNIV9IrYvcAH823KbOVjadSIhau2cB5D/4uLQI4yV2ksHV1bbUrwe+ao1KPb+U4t JkqJmn0PW5h5v91TvIL28wB0hLWLpXbyqukAJKbK7ObwvDn3llfnNuQgRg0sUUAAOi9heW5eDZVb6 1AtaOFEPxdxYcvHzgsIiEzgNCax62WyDNiVUIM2AE4eo+2+dQMiOtl5NlEmk2618tDWc9kyqBW+Kj QU3FSqu6ovBBo9QLxiUbTpMJzsEssms8OB3tfCRVO2upllR7MgnGL9rTGMgBOq2+E6f8GvctKSosn hL0YqeDohB2K+xF85puJyA==; Original-Received: from rms by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qjQFk-0003k0-4H; Thu, 21 Sep 2023 16:26:24 -0400 In-Reply-To: (message from chad on Tue, 19 Sep 2023 14:22:03 -0400) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:310929 Archived-At: [[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider ]]] [[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, ]]] [[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]] > None of the web browsers I've seen for emacs support javascript execution, That is a relief. > and it would be a difficult thing to add. At a guess, the easiest method > would involve emacs running (or communicating with) an existing browser and > interrogating the results, very roughly along the same lines as CIDER or > SLIME bring clojure or common lisp execution into emacs. I first saw CIDER mentioned in a recent discussion, and no one who mentioned it explained what it does. I don't know what SLIME does either. Would you please tell me briefly what they do, in 20 lines for each? I don't want details, at least not to start. > Note that it's _much_ easier to bring simple javascript execution into > emacs -- there are cli/repl-style javascript interpreters available for > such tasks. I think that this development would make EMacs less coherent and more work to maintain and document. It is better not to do this. > In short: the path the "modern web" took to get to interactive "rich" > documents on the web ended up very strongly tied to a particular underlying > representation of the content, including how it is loaded, displayed, > styled, and updated. Those pieces are far more theoretically distinct than > actually composable. That might seem unfortunate in a technical sense, but it turns out beneficial because it saves us from temptation. Since the "modern web" works by trampling users' fredeom by sending programs they do not control to run on their machines, GNU Emacs should not get on board with that. -- Dr Richard Stallman (https://stallman.org) Chief GNUisance of the GNU Project (https://gnu.org) Founder, Free Software Foundation (https://fsf.org) Internet Hall-of-Famer (https://internethalloffame.org)