From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Richard Stallman Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Brand new clojure support in Emacs ;-) Date: Mon, 04 Sep 2023 20:28:26 -0400 Message-ID: References: <87il9kksqz.fsf@dfreeman.email> <87a5uw9ivs.fsf@posteo.net> <87ttt42gna.fsf@dfreeman.email> <87wmy080kn.fsf@posteo.net> <83v8djcydl.fsf@gnu.org> <87350ndquw.fsf@dfreeman.email> <83350ncbns.fsf@gnu.org> <87cyzrjbd8.fsf@dfreeman.email> <83zg2vav46.fsf@gnu.org> <87o7j99304.fsf@dfreeman.email> <87zg2hsyrd.fsf@dfreeman.email> <87h6ontwfv.fsf@posteo.net> <835y4ucrz3.fsf@gnu.org> <831qficgin.fsf@gnu.org> <87ttsehwab.fsf@dfreeman.email> <87fs3x6ge7.fsf@gmail.com> <87v8cthmzl.fsf@dfreeman.email> <838r9pby47.fsf@gnu.org> <838r9n6vhf.fsf@gnu.org> Reply-To: rms@gnu.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=Utf-8 Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="35327"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: casouri@gmail.com, danny@dfreeman.email, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Lynn Winebarger Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Tue Sep 05 02:29:09 2023 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1qdJwL-0008yb-G1 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Tue, 05 Sep 2023 02:29:09 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qdJvg-0000RX-7a; Mon, 04 Sep 2023 20:28:28 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qdJvf-0000RP-AP for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 04 Sep 2023 20:28:27 -0400 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qdJve-0001w3-O7; Mon, 04 Sep 2023 20:28:26 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=Date:References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From: mime-version; bh=kjb7+VewhUgeYk1ffbMS46nJjea7FOFWGkka9lc8voQ=; b=KzjysBa9F1JP FcP0MwxO+wtHSRbdK5zriU/obNvvRlecRHAcsbfbBtydnL7GUMPvhE+hLoChjdNx6CKa3FAT2h1p4 c00epZ7wVE/xuZyx2mxKADfVQR36B7d24i+IOBtgInUtHpH95/HkCK0zhQIhbAnADXCjMeUYtj0pb BIMxwj4U67Yqhqv1HtcYLIKXtZLQxr4kc6a02c4tyxFTwltcIb4DwwV2BbOZAsoAN35+mmCGMnMuw sGXI80ils3JvtE/XXb+YAhMwu06OeylkM2f7awhSJc5XrShkK60x5kqqnxlv4v82yxShbQ/NCb3Ds DwWPvyXg168V2jJPzlPbcA==; Original-Received: from rms by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qdJve-0007JZ-8Z; Mon, 04 Sep 2023 20:28:26 -0400 In-Reply-To: (message from Lynn Winebarger on Sun, 3 Sep 2023 13:16:40 -0400) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:310102 Archived-At: [[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider ]]] [[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, ]]] [[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]] When I said we should aim to have a Clojure mode that is part of Emacs, following the naming convention `clojure-mode', that's not a 100% firm and fixed decision, but it's close to that. I'd like to explain again the reason we have NonGNU ELPA and what purpose it serves, and its contrast with GNU ELPA. GNU ELPA packages are part of GNU Emacs. We deal with them like the rest of GNU Emacs. However, they are _distibuted_ differently in a limited practical sense. Because the only difference is the matter of how to distribute them, we can move them between GNU ELPA and core Emacs based on convenience. After we had GNU ELPA running, we set up NonGNU ELPA to distribute packages which are very clearly NOT part of GNU Emacs. That is what NonGNU ELPA is for. That distinction is important legally and in terms of development. We don't normally maintain those packages at all -- they are developed by others and normally we leave that to them (though we ask them to agree to follow a few limited rules so that they don't cause practical problems). NonGNU ELPA is meant for packages that are useful for some Emacs users but not crucial or important. That being so, it is fine to leave those packages to their developers -- even if they don't make the very best choices, it is no biggie, it is still ok. There are lots of packages which fit fine in NonGNU ELPA and we are generally happy to keep them there. They remain nice add-ons but not crucial. However, when a package gets to be _important_ somehow in the context of Emacs, then it doesn't fit there well any more. For instance, * We want to include it in core Emacs so every user has it. * We want to recommend it specifically to Emacs users. * We may even want to document it in the Emacs manual. We must not do this with a NonGNU ELPA package because it is not a part of Emacs. We must not treat it as one. But we might find it very desirable to have such a package as part of GNU Emacs. That's a situation we occasionally get into. Clojure mode is an example. We should have a Clojure mode that is part of GNU Emacs. It is a problem if we find that path blocked. There are many packages included in core Emacs, or in GNU ELPA, which continue to be developed and maintained by a certain group of people. Occasionally we have a discussion with them about how address some issue within Emacs. But they are capable, so most of the issues they encounter don't require a discussion like that. They simply solve the problem. -- Dr Richard Stallman (https://stallman.org) Chief GNUisance of the GNU Project (https://gnu.org) Founder, Free Software Foundation (https://fsf.org) Internet Hall-of-Famer (https://internethalloffame.org)