From mboxrd@z Thu Jan  1 00:00:00 1970
Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail
From: Richard Stallman <rms@gnu.org>
Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel
Subject: Re: [NonGNU ELPA] New package: llm
Date: Sun, 03 Sep 2023 21:27:17 -0400
Message-ID: <E1qcyN3-0001al-5t@fencepost.gnu.org>
References: <CAM6wYYJHa+tCUKO_SsnT77g-4MUM0x4FrkoCekr=T9-UF1ADDA@mail.gmail.com>
 <E1qTaA2-00038O-UA@fencepost.gnu.org>
 <CAM6wYY+E=z5VqV2xXMbhbpN7vn+-tyzfOGKFAuG0s+croRmEPA@mail.gmail.com>
 <E1qV08g-0001mb-11@fencepost.gnu.org>
 <CAM6wYYLZ26E4rpo2Ae2PyxKSBYQKAXQ6U5_QGMoGx5SQy7AMSA@mail.gmail.com>
 <87v8d0iqa5.fsf@posteo.net> <E1qaR6l-00012I-VP@fencepost.gnu.org>
 <CAM6wYYLYrQL9+3cgUELYavUdHQg5m0bqdW89_qJFvk050-sGNQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <fd98dcaf-5016-1a84-f281-36ef6eb108c5@gmail.com>
 <E1qbX8C-0004EP-3M@fencepost.gnu.org> <87cyz3vaws.fsf@localhost>
Reply-To: rms@gnu.org
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=Utf-8
Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214";
	logging-data="2496"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io"
Cc: jporterbugs@gmail.com, ahyatt@gmail.com, emacs-devel@gnu.org
To: Ihor Radchenko <yantar92@posteo.net>
Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Mon Sep 04 03:28:37 2023
Return-path: <emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org>
Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org
Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17])
	by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256)
	(Exim 4.92)
	(envelope-from <emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org>)
	id 1qcyOL-0000Rq-BE
	for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Mon, 04 Sep 2023 03:28:37 +0200
Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org)
	by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1)
	(envelope-from <emacs-devel-bounces@gnu.org>)
	id 1qcyN6-0005VR-Nm; Sun, 03 Sep 2023 21:27:20 -0400
Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10])
 by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256)
 (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from <rms@gnu.org>) id 1qcyN5-0005U3-3l
 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 03 Sep 2023 21:27:19 -0400
Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e])
 by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256)
 (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from <rms@gnu.org>)
 id 1qcyN3-0002Sw-HT; Sun, 03 Sep 2023 21:27:17 -0400
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org;
 s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=Date:References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From:
 mime-version; bh=mcbWNpQ1Ne+HUdmixrur8rkHW8HQt9vQx/hIbhc3AEU=; b=YX+ZvVoOyvVR
 dkg0cEyIZljOkMqMOo+3jIDDjyEXJPJqFoIuzrmK31T09mkvnEb+lZOKhAWX12Ju0gi4WURo7ynEs
 xC0uNfubXCvUF0FTn/L/kf+ygzaaqZAEbOi+roVnJBbhs2i8WljI+zCGZmjM1NAyte5I0sfv2Mx4h
 u41ZdWvyA6eB4O6DveMBKsxLbCrAsvpL8mlgzkSW60fAEOZeDRS3ruya4RMHZ0rxOj88/l1oAmRbs
 wOQqCjMh+ZoY4swlmxHLtIzAk03CxyDeiU4V/tekXC5Bu1fbY6WYaJ7UllhEJ8t184wxKlY1RKPvo
 37oKAcvl8/sMt+bNih0rTw==;
Original-Received: from rms by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.90_1)
 (envelope-from <rms@gnu.org>)
 id 1qcyN3-0001al-5t; Sun, 03 Sep 2023 21:27:17 -0400
In-Reply-To: <87cyz3vaws.fsf@localhost> (message from Ihor Radchenko on Thu,
 31 Aug 2023 09:06:11 +0000)
X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." <emacs-devel.gnu.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/options/emacs-devel>,
 <mailto:emacs-devel-request@gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-devel>
List-Post: <mailto:emacs-devel@gnu.org>
List-Help: <mailto:emacs-devel-request@gnu.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-devel>,
 <mailto:emacs-devel-request@gnu.org?subject=subscribe>
Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org
Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org
Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:310036
Archived-At: <http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.emacs.devel/310036>

[[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider    ]]]
[[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies,     ]]]
[[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]]

  > > As for LLMs that run on servers, they are a different issue entirely.
  > > They are all SaaSS (Service as a Software Substitute), and SaaSS is
  > > always unjust.
  > >
  > > See https://gnu.org/philosophy/who-does-that-server-really-serve.html
  > > for explanation.

  > I do not fully agree here. A number of more powerful LLMs have very
  > limiting hardware requirements. For example, some LLMs require 64+Gbs of
  > RAM to run:

That is true, and it is unfortunate.  There may be no practical way
to run a certain model except for SaaSS.

That does not alter the injustice of SaaSS.  So we should not silence
our criticism of SaaSS in those cases,

If a user decides to run that model as SaaSS, given this situation,
that is per responsibility.  We will not try to prevent per from
doing so,  But we should inform per of the injustice so perse can
make that decision aware of the injustice.  This is very important.



-- 
Dr Richard Stallman (https://stallman.org)
Chief GNUisance of the GNU Project (https://gnu.org)
Founder, Free Software Foundation (https://fsf.org)
Internet Hall-of-Famer (https://internethalloffame.org)