From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Richard Stallman Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: New Package for NonGNU-ELPA: clojure-ts-mode Date: Fri, 01 Sep 2023 21:51:27 -0400 Message-ID: References: <87il9kksqz.fsf@dfreeman.email> <87wmy080kn.fsf@posteo.net> <83v8djcydl.fsf@gnu.org> <87350ndquw.fsf@dfreeman.email> <83350ncbns.fsf@gnu.org> <87cyzrjbd8.fsf@dfreeman.email> <83zg2vav46.fsf@gnu.org> <87o7j99304.fsf@dfreeman.email> <97224c4f-fad4-ae01-46c1-5755d97d9a92@gutov.dev> <87fs3ztq38.fsf@localhost> <87cyz3qwba.fsf@posteo.net> <8734zztmiz.fsf@localhost> <87sf7zqs3l.fsf@yahoo.com> <87il8vs6e7.fsf@localhost> <87jztbqrc9.fsf@yahoo.com> <877cpbs5a0.fsf@localhost> <87fs3zqqgj.fsf@yahoo.com> <874jkfs4o0.fsf@localhost> <87y1hroz47.fsf@posteo.net> Reply-To: rms@gnu.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=Utf-8 Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="2561"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org, manuel.uberti@inventati.org To: Jens Schmidt Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Sat Sep 02 03:52:11 2023 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1qcFo3-0000Pr-MD for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sat, 02 Sep 2023 03:52:11 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qcFnP-0004ib-DM; Fri, 01 Sep 2023 21:51:31 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qcFnN-0004iH-N8 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 01 Sep 2023 21:51:29 -0400 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qcFnL-0000AI-Bz; Fri, 01 Sep 2023 21:51:27 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=Date:References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From: mime-version; bh=c6a8RUiCL74z49C9H8sSTf4iJMGhquJCJJRTTP7g73U=; b=K0CH5c/I9xaP VdbPIzNGt16MekclBS+hFu9L9uVpibSI6+rj26bH1GrXsBe7avn/r3iajfTqN1Ymtu9/ElHip9P8O I8bmJdieS7JzEPtWmZEmAUhE1O70noi7YtmMroeP48R5b1Uws4U++og7ONy/R1cTyO2sNRC5782kX 7bE5eoCUiOxvjkUWx/9sS5XEb98F/yrqgko66PqMWU70e6JUD7fynsI8Mf7358lysXHEVXkAA6MkR cKrkuecoY/xhNkhdXW9hWlUxyifGhbOT/0L2F19cjeRemdpl3rpYxU6xL9AVFGS9lEa2AG1PnNFAD o9HSGWuCn3M4DCevBpefpg==; Original-Received: from rms by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qcFnL-0008QG-3Q; Fri, 01 Sep 2023 21:51:27 -0400 In-Reply-To: (message from Jens Schmidt on Fri, 1 Sep 2023 00:05:25 +0200) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:309838 Archived-At: [[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider ]]] [[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, ]]] [[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]] The problems you've reported with emacs-devel seem significant. Thanks for describing them clearly. > These text entry boxes on Github et al. definitely > feel easier and more inviting to use. Github is a non-starter for the GNU Project for moral reasons: it requires users to run nonfree JavaScript. We can't direct users there. Another problem is that one can't use Emacs editing for editing text entry in IceCat, which is the browser I can trust to protect me from JavaScript malware. The email interface must continue to work. But I don't see anything wrong in offering a web interface _also_, provided it is only an alternate, not the recommended way. But we shouldn't neglect the email problems you've repoeted. I think we can fix them, at least some of them, in Emacs's mail composition modes. First, we could give them a list of the mailing lists we want them to handle specially -- you could put in the lists you use. That way you won't have to explicitly request special handling for them. Then we could automaticall add or enable various features, such as auto-fill, when sending to those lists. We could have a way of recognizing that certain CC addresses are on the list so they can be dropped automatically from the CC of the reply, while retaining others. Maybe we could modify the list handler server software to do some of this automatically. Perhaps to indicate in some extension header which cc'd addresses are not on the mailing list, and the mail mode would put those by default into the CC header of the reply. I think we could eliminate the inconveniences of email this way. > Exactly. TBH I still have to assemble courage to post here. All these > top dogs with their super-dry yet elaborate communication style are > surely, um, intimidating. That is not a good thing. Maybe we can continue on the path of the Kind Communication Guidelines (https://gnu.org/philosophy/kind-communication.html) to make emacs-devel less intimidating. Would you like to start accumulating a list of examples that do, or did in the past, feel intimidating to you? We could learn ommething from that. First step, we could set up a web page that explais the conventions in a clear and kind way, so that when we ask newcomers to follow them, we won't make per feel bad. But I don't deserve credit for my typos. I must admit that they are all unintentional ;-{. -- Dr Richard Stallman (https://stallman.org) Chief GNUisance of the GNU Project (https://gnu.org) Founder, Free Software Foundation (https://fsf.org) Internet Hall-of-Famer (https://internethalloffame.org)