From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: "Alfred M. Szmidt" Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Shrinking the C core Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2023 02:19:07 -0400 Message-ID: References: <20230809094655.793FC18A4654@snark.thyrsus.com> <87fs4pkkqi.fsf@dataswamp.org> <87jztzkgct.fsf@dataswamp.org> <87y1if8j8t.fsf@linux-m68k.org> <87y1ifi9fv.fsf@dataswamp.org> <87zg2uqdmv.fsf@localhost> <87edk3gbh3.fsf@dataswamp.org> <87jztvnuyb.fsf@localhost> <875y5bdutt.fsf@dataswamp.org> <87y1i6e1uh.fsf@localhost> <874jkub40o.fsf@dataswamp.org> <87jztqdw2l.fsf@localhost> <87msym9i4r.fsf@dataswamp.org> <87a5ula1zt.fsf@dataswamp.org> Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="2313"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Emanuel Berg Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Mon Aug 21 08:19:59 2023 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1qXyGd-0000IF-IW for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Mon, 21 Aug 2023 08:19:59 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qXyFs-00030S-6A; Mon, 21 Aug 2023 02:19:12 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qXyFq-0002zz-3s for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 21 Aug 2023 02:19:10 -0400 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qXyFp-0006ME-DA; Mon, 21 Aug 2023 02:19:09 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=Date:References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From: mime-version; bh=Hoki0H6Z0JZssylTn3Le8jtBEu47fd3kMpwB7w0d9w8=; b=CE+GGxW7CMX6 A9pXQD4lDKD33IksI65sO6eYVpdwc1alJ0x2ibrIp/NFHThvbIVK6IE8Ys/cUinhT4O+9l5XjaWoK A/2Jq/juzvTi7itf8u9LkESJ6Lh7BSB813CkNhyoIhYDEfsKoDx5IaklbhT/5sPCRUgR+2yCYzxVk Bm2Hfcoqh1xNNvZniDHszbGsHXw8AJ66JPrreyTUGe4AV75y8L0hltm2MUKMZBWMMUbKbCgYkr8V/ /9jTUpdmIxxzqme2H0ENGk35HztvkZSWSpxbT5ABSO9VBO700isp2Bhy9kI9+OuIOJGU/533fZQYi XG++w4SWHEzsVLIi1xOZEA==; Original-Received: from ams by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qXyFn-00026h-CD; Mon, 21 Aug 2023 02:19:08 -0400 In-Reply-To: <87a5ula1zt.fsf@dataswamp.org> (message from Emanuel Berg on Sun, 20 Aug 2023 22:32:38 +0200) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:309026 Archived-At: > Please keep the CC intact, not everyone subscribed. Yes, that is some Gnus configuration "ghost" I must have done, several people have pointed it out, but I have been unable to locate it - so far. I suppose that is also why I get a bounce from you? > Hi! > > This is the MAILER-DAEMON, please DO NOT REPLY to this email. > > An error has occurred while attempting to deliver a message for > the following list of recipients: > > incal@dataswamp.org: "stdin: 0 messages processed in 0.001 seconds" Adding it here, since it seems impossible to send messages to your swamp. >>> If we talk about type checking, Elisp uses dynamic typing >>> and compilation cannot do much about it. >>> Native compilation also does not touch C subroutines - the >>> place where typechecks are performed. >> >> SBCL implements a Lisp, Lisp by definition is >> dynamically typed. > > Only for the kind of use (code) that we are used to. > See this: > > https://medium.com/@MartinCracauer/static-type-checking-in-the-programmable-programming-language-lisp-79bb79eb068a > > This has literally nothing to do with the difference between > static typing, and dynamic typing. They are checked at compile time and with declare one can influence execution based on that. It doesn't say subsequent execution won't have to check types, for that one would need complete inference like they have in SML. That is not the meaning of dynamically or statically typed. Statically typed languages you know every type at compile time, in a dynamically typed language you have no clue about it either at compile time or run time. The article in question claims that Lisp is statically typed, which is a total misunderstanding of the term. That would be really nice to have BTW, are you saying that isn't possible with Lisp? Why not? Because you literally always have to check the type, even with a declare/declaim you are allowed to pass garbage. The compiler can produce a warning, but it isn't an error in Lisp, while it is an error in a statically typed language already at compile time. In Lisp you never know the types of things.