From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: "Alfred M. Szmidt" Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Package "luwak" Date: Fri, 16 Dec 2022 10:33:54 -0500 Message-ID: References: <87k02ws0pd.fsf@posteo.net> <87h6xxacuw.fsf@posteo.net> Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="40011"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: philipk@posteo.net, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: rms@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Fri Dec 16 16:34:57 2022 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1p6Cjh-000AEA-BF for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Fri, 16 Dec 2022 16:34:57 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1p6Cj9-0007Ca-IR; Fri, 16 Dec 2022 10:34:25 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1p6Cik-0007AQ-2J for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 16 Dec 2022 10:34:00 -0500 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1p6Cij-0003o5-QV; Fri, 16 Dec 2022 10:33:57 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=Date:References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From: mime-version; bh=+q6+eceVD29haXvqJ1mlHqbPAm99nlgsYUYc1buZBqk=; b=A85dxV8nl0x3 pBHE6IiSl+Yds7XzFuhE+0M9gPO+XVRnYhMye4dYjONz8Wemz34y/3RdLAhCBa+diyUCBoYZS0bhM 3/T9ZubZE4SrhgBd8NiqdcK+oH4lZAF/vdRAGEBKnUdPUEUowjAVIGMAHhwcbZkjBlyPYMCg5v7NV r/XNr2h+VIUUdnR0uJz+c3EJ4RyYe6yiBi22ltY0chdHzqjMsoZwJI3iVA5nWo9NWWIH+XS9HN2My Ys87iexotaCe/LYiZIuB+l1o2thZYcIR490LT600pKuK+8hMjT1eQEQj+dvGDMXLZ5D1aWqQ/7ihx gvSgQCUy+Rev5R7yUxN7fQ==; Original-Received: from ams by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1p6Cig-0004RG-Ij; Fri, 16 Dec 2022 10:33:55 -0500 In-Reply-To: (message from Richard Stallman on Thu, 15 Dec 2022 22:35:42 -0500) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:301492 Archived-At: Isn't this sorta tackling the wrong problem? The main issue that I think Richard wants to tackle is discoverability. So while luwak as a name is is meaningless, doesn't mean that it in itself is a bad name -- it is unique, and easy to remeber. In most Emacs files there is the Keywords: field, which lists some "things that this does". This would be a better way to make things discoverable. If we take a simple example of what I would consider bad discoverability, it would be eww and shr. eww.el has: Keywords: html shr.el has: Keywords: html They do do "html" -- but are totally different in what they _actually_ do. I was looking if there was a command, say package-list-keywords, package-apropos or apropos-package, but didn't find anything. Even for rmail, gnus, and mule which are all mail clients and the names mostly meaningless we have: rmail.el: ;; Keywords: mail gnus.el: ;; Keywords: news, mail mh-eh.el ;; Keywords: mail While slightly better, but as a user slightly meaningless (what does "mail" mean? is it a MTA? MUA? does it parse SMTP? mbox files?) mail-utils.el also has `mail' as a keyword. A crude grep for `mail' as a keyword results in 108 files, and I don't think we have 108 mail readers. :-) Instead of trying to find "perfect" names (that both explain what a program does (by "program" i mean something a user directly interactes with, e.g., rmail, org-mode, gnus, or eww), but are also easy to remeber and unique); wouldn't it make more sense to have another field, or extend the Keywords field? In the case of eww and luwak, or even a links or lynx mode, the Keywords: (or whatever) could explicitly say "web-browser". A command like apropos-package could then list those, or some other solution. We have variables like browse-url-browser-function which could take use of this as well in some form, where "things" could be marked as "suitable" for use in this variable. That gets rid of all discussion of "that isn't a very good name of a package", and instead makes it easier to discover things that might be useful.