From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Richard Stallman Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Help sought understanding shorthands wrt modules/packages Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2022 23:35:14 -0500 Message-ID: References: <25a8a3a6-81c8-3fbc-434d-fb1b24ae1d62@gmail.com> <83cza48lxe.fsf@gnu.org> <87cza0ihb7.fsf@gmx.de> Reply-To: rms@gnu.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=Utf-8 Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="39387"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: michael.albinus@gmx.de, eliz@gnu.org, akrl@sdf.org, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Jo=C3=A3o_T=C3=A1vora?= Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Fri Nov 11 05:36:39 2022 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1otLmQ-000A2V-Bc for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Fri, 11 Nov 2022 05:36:38 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1otLl8-0005hz-37; Thu, 10 Nov 2022 23:35:18 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1otLl5-0005h5-4V for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 10 Nov 2022 23:35:15 -0500 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1otLl4-0007QN-Ok; Thu, 10 Nov 2022 23:35:14 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=Date:References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From: mime-version; bh=tt232BDFvyvMqyDXNO1CqpXYh6Wb8/hhH9L6FfjsBlg=; b=Lyqz1CczKZ+F VR7+EVQj4zyqcVZ8fhLUoUuWbU+hwpkyP3OpDunKa76VE8T9OwL1GqQoSyn8ecIvnYj0BjC4Srj8x 88fjifU5x0+e8MD/Bq1jaCyyPhhkq4vllGuuEMnrMw2K9Hre2G1D1r2eBTpsdW0hsNO+xNE61vwj6 M5vOXJCE6IrOflBdbuytw3x2yGWuOFCEPnz2kkb0QZe1KSdFhPE7bggfU1TK1hq+np/8o2I9sXKZa PJzMvwLoMVluGHq2KHV91S7tNK6j6ajvnLGsnFgLIdMaWlRpOX8PyXCfRPh7QlElg6gSqEcyOWOLm J25ARwNSXb3AOiL7JUU99w==; Original-Received: from rms by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1otLl4-0006zs-9c; Thu, 10 Nov 2022 23:35:14 -0500 In-Reply-To: (message from =?iso-8859-1?Q?Jo=C3=A3o_T=C3=A1vora?= on Sun, 6 Nov 2022 11:19:55 +0000) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:299537 Archived-At: [[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider ]]] [[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, ]]] [[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]] > > > ** Shorthands for loading a file can be specified from "outside". > > > > > > The new function `load-with-shorthands' loads a file > > > and specifies additional shorthands for reading it. > I think it's fair to say, as the person who originally implemented > shorthands, > that I don't agree with this change. Now I see why you think this is not necessary. Your idea for how to handle s.el is to use an edited version, edited to specify shorthands. Thus, we would have a file magnars-string.el in GNU ELPA, or perhaps in the core, and a nearly identical file s.el in NonGNU ELPA for compatibility's sake. (Thanks for reminding me that the developer's name is Magnar. I was trying to remember it, but lacking a copy of s.el I knew where to find, I couldn't check.) We would need to update the two files in sync every time. I did not think of doing it that way, because I think it is asking for trouble. We should have only one copy of s.el, and it should be the usual released version. Thus, instead of making a modified version magnars-string.el, we would have string.el load s.el with added shorthands. We would never have two versions of that file, only one. Another point of disagreement is that you envision advising users to load magnars-string.el rather than string.el, and make it something that only some users would do. People have said that s.el is very useful. So I envision making it standard and documenting those functions in the Emacs Lisp Reference Manual. Maybe we should even preload them. > Providing two different ways to load an .el file so that each interns > different > symbols into obarray would lead to unfortunate consequences where it would > be hard or impossible for humans or programs to understand the provenance of > a given symbol. I don't follow you here. What problems do you see? -- Dr Richard Stallman (https://stallman.org) Chief GNUisance of the GNU Project (https://gnu.org) Founder, Free Software Foundation (https://fsf.org) Internet Hall-of-Famer (https://internethalloffame.org)