From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Richard Stallman Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: [ELPA] new package: tramp-docker Date: Sat, 08 Oct 2022 18:34:06 -0400 Message-ID: References: <5674f36a-c276-fd77-b4d2-1525c75a1602@spork.org> <871qrkkrvv.fsf@posteo.net> Reply-To: rms@gnu.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=Utf-8 Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="13483"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Philip Kaludercic Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Sun Oct 09 00:35:24 2022 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1ohIPk-0003K6-BV for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sun, 09 Oct 2022 00:35:24 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:36514 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1ohIPi-0003c2-S0 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sat, 08 Oct 2022 18:35:22 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:56104) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1ohIOX-0002Cg-8D for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 08 Oct 2022 18:34:09 -0400 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:35056) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1ohIOW-0004MV-1q; Sat, 08 Oct 2022 18:34:08 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=Date:References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From: mime-version; bh=+bGUUjcprK21yStIzcEYDZ+d6w/Hv/wKR9pqLm7QZ4Q=; b=liJXTLg7g2DV ES1ClvPF6RiyyJoaC+sN9lFIrx5d4N7KCzXRFHgnSbu291/HCBIq+NaFM4/pp/Uf/r+R+r1gOy92y ENjtZty96V+yPeJgefYvYXeWfntaysglwz67QS+/MMtnq3y39TvvYzF3i/o9VZ0Y37hkdZASgYC8x nvWahUfz1Tv/PQUGNpXNEadGxT74KSrMPRR+AHnqwV2ISfVpWJVBQNXXIw1v56NjHqKtIJpt1NNPb 3NXWl99uFE6965OywGdSQn6NU2Fc4X+Qj8VKU9KG5S3xW8Ja9xOHCGGhmqxdFp5JFuUNg47UzYhW5 D0CQnXbFohe/VjX20FUDBQ==; Original-Received: from rms by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1ohIOU-0007lO-75; Sat, 08 Oct 2022 18:34:06 -0400 In-Reply-To: <871qrkkrvv.fsf@posteo.net> (message from Philip Kaludercic on Fri, 07 Oct 2022 07:35:48 +0000) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:297227 Archived-At: [[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider ]]] [[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, ]]] [[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]] > > 1. Is the Docker program free software? Is the Podman program free > > software? If neither of them is free software, is this a feature that > > promotes running nonfree software on GNU? > Yes, both are free software. That is a relief -- at the first level, this is not a problem. > To my knowledge there is the danger of either having a build-time or a > run-time dependency on a non-free container, That's what was reported to me. Does Docker provide an easy way to verify that you have avoided such dependencies? A way to make sure to avoid including them? though looking through a > container index like (https://hub.docker.com/search?q=) I tried visiting http://hub.docker.com/ and got a blank window. It depends on nonfree software to see even the first page. We must not refer anyone to that site. Likewise for https://hub.docker.com/search. I surmise that the standard way to develop a container involves using https://hub.docker.com/search. Is that correct? Is that the _only_ way to develop a container? Is it possible, practically speaking, to build a container without using that site at all? Has anyone here had practical experience? , it appears that > the overwhelming majority of popular software is free software, if only > because distribution is easier. Alas, that does not by itself ensure that, supposing you build a container, you won't consider including nonfree programs. Is there an easy way you can ensure that _all_ the programs you put into a new container are free? Is there an easy way to verify that the contents of a container are free? After I get a little information here, I will ask on gnu-misc-discuss. > That being said, TRAMP+Docker is a popular combination for developing > software, so what people often just do is use a distribution image > (Ubuntu, Debian, Alpine) as the foundation and then instruct the > container to install all the software they need using the distributions > package manager, while building their own image. I see how that is buzarre, but paradoxically it might work in freedom's favor here. If you use a free distro to build the container, and put things in it with apt-get, you will get only free software in it. Maybe that is a reliable method we could recommend. > > 3. Distributing free programs in containers tends to be bad for > > the community's control over the program. Because people > > don't build the program on the GNU/Linux distros they use, > > and don't package it for those distros. > > > > This too we should use the opportunity to warn people about. > I think this could be added to the commentary section. Maybe so, but when you say "the commentary section", could you be more precise? The commentary section of what documentation? After I get a little information here, I will move this to gnu-misc-discuss. -- Dr Richard Stallman (https://stallman.org) Chief GNUisance of the GNU Project (https://gnu.org) Founder, Free Software Foundation (https://fsf.org) Internet Hall-of-Famer (https://internethalloffame.org)