From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Richard Stallman Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: src/Makefile unhelpful Date: Sat, 10 Sep 2022 23:38:14 -0400 Message-ID: References: <83bkrrj48w.fsf@gnu.org> <83tu5ifl5d.fsf@gnu.org> Reply-To: rms@gnu.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=Utf-8 Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="4667"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Sun Sep 11 05:39:16 2022 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1oXDoR-00014N-T0 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sun, 11 Sep 2022 05:39:15 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:36586 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1oXDoQ-0000Ap-ST for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sat, 10 Sep 2022 23:39:14 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:43538) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1oXDnT-0006l6-7m for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 10 Sep 2022 23:38:15 -0400 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:55598) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1oXDnS-0000gH-V7 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 10 Sep 2022 23:38:14 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=Date:References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From: mime-version; bh=ciCjbecmNjHH+OJOuj/ojnjN98bG0XFBm+xPMmo+8/A=; b=fUQw/GO0MbUs Inok3O1sbq8fRNMQm8Il/ZXWRzjDRGwYuSli7N0sx2O3ojzlNrpSqVEow80SJyG1ANm6WM2bht+/p G5FP9pxmK2W/gfPnGYEQJc6h2k6BKbvrdQ6m8rfwMLXL/vROuDjeSyTME/6MnNA/pgAVOyxnR411h SfA+dBT0lBGwmK2K5GMQRRn8PPnKD5UwVaKCpKXtPNqZzNb6sL/y9gQoBZeq4Dxq/anIAkolRl81R cMHpPjKAtggvHvnQGNvZ4HKP3mFg7Qwq62iziBdDQ13uvLNRdRYlG3O/d8D9UqhI5wL4oB5/CNPHE OjpqiQac+jDxA2x9ChIRyA==; Original-Received: from rms by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1oXDnS-0002pY-Df; Sat, 10 Sep 2022 23:38:14 -0400 In-Reply-To: <83tu5ifl5d.fsf@gnu.org> (message from Eli Zaretskii on Thu, 08 Sep 2022 09:14:06 +0300) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:295152 Archived-At: [[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider ]]] [[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, ]]] [[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]] > I understood, but I think it isn't needed even once, because we don't > care about the exact command unless we run into some trouble. I agree. I brought this up because I did run into some kind of trouble, and I could not find a way to see what the commands actually were. I proposed a solution with the advantage that you don't need to remember how to invoke it. > The command is quite long, so outputting it even once will write a lot > of stuff to the screen, stuff that we almost always ignore. That is normal for output from make. Most of the output from make, we normally ignore. Each line of output is useful when it is pertinent to some problem. With hundreds of lines of that, there is no harm adding a few lines more. > It's a general Autoconf-based solution many/all GNU projects use, so > if we want to change that to something more memorable, we should > change that across the board. In reaching that conclusion you have implicitly rejected other kinds of solutions. Unfortunately, this one has a fatal flaw: the autotools don't have a lot of people working on them. If there were a good solution in Autoconf or Automake, it would probably not get implemented. -- Dr Richard Stallman (https://stallman.org) Chief GNUisance of the GNU Project (https://gnu.org) Founder, Free Software Foundation (https://fsf.org) Internet Hall-of-Famer (https://internethalloffame.org)