From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Richard Stallman Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Org mode and Emacs (was: Convert README.org to plain text README while installing package) Date: Sun, 12 Jun 2022 18:38:45 -0400 Message-ID: References: <87h74ztshe.fsf@gmx.de> <871qw31ois.fsf@yahoo.com> <8735gj4ceo.fsf@gnu.org> <87ee038ipt.fsf@gmx.de> <87o7z61v59.fsf@gmail.com> <87bkv527p5.fsf@gmail.com> <835yld93w7.fsf@gnu.org> <877d5t0yrn.fsf@gmail.com> <87r140yuof.fsf@gmail.com> <875yl9e7zm.fsf@gmail.com> <83czfh12kp.fsf@gnu.org> <87pmjhghu2.fsf@localhost> <835yl910gp.fsf@gnu.org> <87wndndbhq.fsf@gmail.com> <874k0qbrhe.fsf@localhost> Reply-To: rms@gnu.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=Utf-8 Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="6324"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: theophilusx@gmail.com, eliz@gnu.org, monnier@iro.umontreal.ca, acm@muc.de, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Ihor Radchenko Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Mon Jun 13 00:42:00 2022 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1o0WHN-0001P0-OL for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Mon, 13 Jun 2022 00:41:57 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:53816 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1o0WHM-0001oa-ID for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sun, 12 Jun 2022 18:41:56 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:46524) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1o0WEI-0004gQ-U8 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 12 Jun 2022 18:38:47 -0400 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:54772) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1o0WEH-00065A-T2; Sun, 12 Jun 2022 18:38:45 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=Date:References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From: mime-version; bh=woMxuLm2N5LnHv359pf0l5n8xZ+riPaeQpFfKInud3Q=; b=cZ9W+hZmKeQt bAmMfY93d9Wor2nbsYPIfNuYAuprJUVdujnAn384ED8MCYG0RVi3n5L+vAIIzXxOrYL2Ffnucl8sg K/L6b2ucKU0jkHCyi1f9WdD6gn4rCrTA8WndDp806WG+sVQ0Tguwo104Zb1FviNVuxdVkAnOD+knc tk9yxflCDd2kn6FMawfUPKB8x9e6dYyEvvkk/5nrNc0lZR4CFbR1t9Tv/9sJf9wk1n8Dek7qacpea Hyj/+rjhAoWeUyqH8z5T68Lra7qiXC0lF8VZMHkp/SwTvN3jsqWvZlPoSW1kEQ1WeTG0P1m0aAxLy 3mYxwOY1v7c+N9Lng1Y++A==; Original-Received: from rms by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1o0WEH-0004wk-Hw; Sun, 12 Jun 2022 18:38:45 -0400 In-Reply-To: <874k0qbrhe.fsf@localhost> (message from Ihor Radchenko on Sun, 12 Jun 2022 09:27:57 +0800) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:291111 Archived-At: [[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider ]]] [[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, ]]] [[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]] > For instance, Texinfo has @var, @emph and @dfn, > > all of which generate italics in printed output, but they differ in > > what they generate for other output formats. There are probably 15 > > other such constructs. > Could you please point to the place where I can read about the different > generated output? They are in the Texinfo manual. Look at node "Indicating", which is section 7.1 in the version I have in Info. (In the Info version of the file, the title of the node for @code is actually formatted wrong. It has single quotes around `@code' in the title itself. Texinfo does have some problems that need fixing, and it is hard to fix anything in it.) > One key reason I worry about going down that road is that I suspect it > would complicate org's syntax. Two key benefits of org mode is that the > basic syntax is simple and it maps reasonably consistently acorss > different output formats. However, this flexibility does come at a cost. > To provide consistency across export formats, the basic formatting > 'concepts' need to be somewhat 'generalised', which means at times you > will loose some of the more advanced or sophisticated formatting power > of some export back-ends. I suspect we are slightly miscommunicating, because Texinfo already generates several different formats of output, and each markup construct is carefully defined about how it should appear in each output format. So I'm sure it is possible to define additional markup constucts and make each one do, in each output format, what Texinfo would (or does) do with it. The only hard part is finding syntax for them. > As pointed out elswhere in this thread, org could support missing > texinfo syntax using texinfo specific blocks. However, that isn't a > great experience from an authoring perspective. It is fine if you only > need to do it occasionally, but if you have to constantly add such > blocks in order to get really well formatted texinfo output, This is rather vague. Why do you thik this would be difficult to use Can we find a solution to make it easy to use? We don't have to be limited to whichever escape syntaxes Org already satisfies. This use is _important_. For this, it is worth making new ones. -- Dr Richard Stallman (https://stallman.org) Chief GNUisance of the GNU Project (https://gnu.org) Founder, Free Software Foundation (https://fsf.org) Internet Hall-of-Famer (https://internethalloffame.org)