From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Richard Stallman Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: plz -> curl? Date: Mon, 16 May 2022 19:25:41 -0400 Message-ID: References: <874k1vzyom.fsf@posteo.net> <104ffa6b-12ae-53df-e289-aba7d7200654@alphapapa.net> Reply-To: rms@gnu.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=Utf-8 Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="38391"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: philipk@posteo.net, mardani29@yahoo.es, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Adam Porter Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Tue May 17 01:27:06 2022 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1nqk7F-0009mz-Bk for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Tue, 17 May 2022 01:27:05 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:47440 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1nqk7D-0005vi-Mg for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Mon, 16 May 2022 19:27:03 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:58944) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1nqk5u-0002kJ-I5 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 16 May 2022 19:25:42 -0400 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:46898) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1nqk5t-0007Ek-QH; Mon, 16 May 2022 19:25:41 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=Date:References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From: mime-version; bh=Tyv9Ajj9vmBkdewuB5+npc77s4guo4UWvSBKJymaTvg=; b=i57UmyKLTbSc MwfB+OKucmubrtehA4sVnLqXqzLCLv1woU2Ij+xz256M/PTDUCKyCQtcXQ5U1IG5wClIDLsfZNDEm ySoQr/Kcz/SamRHd4vTr2UwniTqKN28sOrbmf210Hp3Hp8LP35QfMy0J+N3szHutr7ZcJScjxercB 0SPssAdfLS7T19elYiuZYi78gHOhBYyM1jCCen4jZPZbJlexXU6RNAmOMYz6LMPQokXsDpsvPL73y wbJle37w7D0bpN1GwLD7/oI9h+hpYC+OmuQ2Ax5uk0m6RV7ZHVKIBsJY8yF9L3J2tK4jKlX8KEpHu GEu08ODtLXJ6dm+OZOSYLg==; Original-Received: from rms by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1nqk5t-0000N6-2U; Mon, 16 May 2022 19:25:41 -0400 In-Reply-To: (message from Adam Porter on Sun, 15 May 2022 02:53:29 -0500) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:289819 Archived-At: [[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider ]]] [[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, ]]] [[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]] We have arrived at a deep and fundamental disagreement about what it means to make a program clear. I have pointed out that the name "plz" gives no information about what the package does. It is totally unhelpful. You contend that an arbitrary and unhelpful name is just as good as a helpful name. The argument is that we have commands to do searches from the name to its purpose and from words in its purpose to the name. Those commands are helpful, but using them is laborious by comparison woth the simple verbalconnection. For the packages feature, I am a beginner. I don't know those commands. I will learn these commands if I start using packages more, but there will always be many users who are beginners in this. Whenever we add a new package, we should consider whether to change its name first. But plz has not been installed for long. Giving it a clear, meaningful name now won't cause any pain. A clear meaningful name does not have to be long. Someone suggested `curl' -- meaningful, and quite short. Perhaps `curl-url' would be even more helpful, to the many who who don't use curl -- and it is still short. If no one has a better idea, let's rename it that way now. It would still be a good thing to design a uniform interface for fetching a page through any of the various methods Emacs supports. But that may or may not get written, so let's DTRT for this package now. -- Dr Richard Stallman (https://stallman.org) Chief GNUisance of the GNU Project (https://gnu.org) Founder, Free Software Foundation (https://fsf.org) Internet Hall-of-Famer (https://internethalloffame.org)