From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Richard Stallman Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: gmail+imap+smtp (oauth2) Date: Mon, 09 May 2022 19:20:11 -0400 Message-ID: References: <871qxbdulc.fsf@mat.ucm.es> <87k0b2tkg1.fsf@mat.ucm.es> <87zgjx4qhs.fsf@gmail.com> <87bkwcgmr3.fsf@mat.ucm.es> <87levfzqj2.fsf@yale.edu> <87sfpnkl6w.fsf@ucl.ac.uk> <8735higaff.fsf@ucl.ac.uk> Reply-To: rms@gnu.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=Utf-8 Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="12358"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Eric S Fraga Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Tue May 10 01:22:11 2022 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1noChe-000306-Oq for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Tue, 10 May 2022 01:22:10 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:39888 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1noChd-0003HZ-Ml for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Mon, 09 May 2022 19:22:09 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:44554) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1noCfk-0006sl-OB for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 09 May 2022 19:20:12 -0400 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:34082) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1noCfj-0007Xg-P2; Mon, 09 May 2022 19:20:11 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=Date:References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From: mime-version; bh=hfe5K/aL9r7SvJsBBy61UpwrbfoPgxDEpaDafzvaoq4=; b=YluYW0DryrSN hFtbi7cfBNr5GHxHZB/Dd/UDwJUUdXcSxu5awXYcGRRb9ZhpZic2mtOelJTo8ZXx+gUEtl4V9U0yl JiZeI0mBLvh3sNNgHPZZrCqNLsqjwQzyNCyddAgMGGvBSN7/s/wMeDpIR+Ldrsh2qXbkZw8MFw7lt xMGKKWIEROMsJoApj9XT8pAffGYtnSFWJ6I3XtFmuD7jKwlDhctXIZ3/o6tFu/MIUKhufl4H6U1Em ikB7i0955WZT0Eh2Ex0Z0lGFtDD+tkxPprYpl+yeme79XUA1i71w4I07iO8i95tJyvmPiur80LWh6 YUhWVdJZqkYisqT3t7fWqg==; Original-Received: from rms by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1noCfj-0002mP-9e; Mon, 09 May 2022 19:20:11 -0400 In-Reply-To: <8735higaff.fsf@ucl.ac.uk> (message from Eric S Fraga on Mon, 09 May 2022 13:25:24 +0100) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:289559 Archived-At: [[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider ]]] [[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, ]]] [[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]] > > 1. What kind of thing is devmail? Is it a program? Is it a service? > Yes, both: a program that provides a service. I'll try to clear up the distinction I'm making. I'm not sure how to > differentiate between these two classifications... A program and a service are totally different kinds of things. A program is a list of instructions. It can be stored in a file. Copies of that file can be made and distributed. They can be run. You could get a copy of a program and run it yourself. It is impossible to do ANY of those things to a service. Consider Twitter. You can't put Twitter in a file. It is impossible to copy Twitter (what would that mean?), or "run Twitter" (what would that mean?). A service is something which does things, and which you can communicate with. You can't "run" it or "copy" it, but you can talk with it. It may do some things at your request; it may answer some kinds of questions. Or not. A service can be operated by a computer. Or by a human being. In principle, you as a user communicating with the service can't necessarily tell how it is operated, and it may not matter anyway. If a service is operated by running a program on a computer, for clarity of our thinking we need to keep the distinction between the service and the program. What's true of one is probably not true of the other. When you talked about "using devmail", which of these did you do> Did you talk with a service set up by someone else? Did you run the devmail program on a computer of yours? Both? -- Dr Richard Stallman (https://stallman.org) Chief GNUisance of the GNU Project (https://gnu.org) Founder, Free Software Foundation (https://fsf.org) Internet Hall-of-Famer (https://internethalloffame.org)