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From: Richard Stallman <rms@gnu.org>
To: John Yates <john@yates-sheets.org>
Cc: theophilusx@gmail.com, monnier@iro.umontreal.ca, emacs-devel@gnu.org
Subject: Re: Keybinding styles (was: [External] : Re: Gitlab Migration)
Date: Tue, 07 Sep 2021 23:29:44 -0400	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <E1mNoHQ-0003RH-Sh@fencepost.gnu.org> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <CAJnXXogQe9ctfLz3aXrMp81cMhvTs_TGcdwVB2rxQCsX42_a5A@mail.gmail.com> (message from John Yates on Tue, 7 Sep 2021 08:02:03 -0400)

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  > I did not suggest that we do any work specifically to support
  > any specific alternative set of key bindings.  What I attempted
  > to suggest is trying to understand the experience of someone
  > adopting Emacs from the outset with evil-mode or some other
  > alternative set of key bindings enabled.  To what extent can
  > that user be made to feel other than a second class member
  > of our community?

In principle, if we could easily do that, there would be no reason not
to try.  But I expect it would be far too much work, and that we should
therefore reject the goal.

For instance, anyone using an interface different from the one
described in the Emacs Manual will justly feel it is second-class.

  > Can the user experience when perusing
  > documentation be either in terms of neutral function names
  > or, when key bindings must be mentioned, then in terms of
  > that user's elected bindings?

We do that in the documentation strings in Emacs.
But not in the manual, because that is written by hand.

If you wanted to do a research project, you could try developing a
system for writing manuals which handled variation in key bindings.
You might come up with an advance in technology.

If you want to work on that research, I wish you luck, but that is
outside the scope of the GNU Project.

  > > I keep wishing someone came up with a clever way for modes to specify
  > > their key-bindings in such a way that Emacs can automatically derive from
  > > it the keys to use "normally" as well as the keys to use in Evil or the
  > > keys to use in god-mode, or the keys to use in this hypothetical new
  > > `really-cua-mode`, ...
  > > So as to finally address this long-term maintenance challenge.

This is a different project -- it does not involve the Emacs Manual.
It might be much easier than the project I discussed above.

It is still research, though, and outside the scope of the GNU Project.
Not so far outside, but outside nonetheless.

I don't think this project should be a priority.  But work on it if
you like, and if you make it work, we could install it.

I do not believe that this would be enough to avoid making users of
nonstandard key bindings feel their key bindings are second class.



-- 
Dr Richard Stallman (https://stallman.org)
Chief GNUisance of the GNU Project (https://gnu.org)
Founder, Free Software Foundation (https://fsf.org)
Internet Hall-of-Famer (https://internethalloffame.org)





  reply	other threads:[~2021-09-08  3:29 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 47+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2021-09-03 18:00 [External] : Re: Gitlab Migration Drew Adams
2021-09-03 20:06 ` Stefan Kangas
2021-09-03 22:49 ` Stefan Monnier
2021-09-04  2:00   ` Tim Cross
2021-09-04 13:26     ` Keybinding styles (was: [External] : Re: Gitlab Migration) Stefan Monnier
2021-09-04 13:39       ` Dmitry Gutov
2021-09-04 14:25         ` Keybinding styles Stefan Monnier
2021-09-04 15:44       ` Keybinding styles (was: [External] : Re: Gitlab Migration) Yuan Fu
2021-09-04 15:50         ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-09-04 15:55           ` Drew Adams
2021-09-04 16:07           ` Yuan Fu
2021-09-04 16:19             ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-09-06  3:07             ` Richard Stallman
2021-09-06 11:28               ` Dmitry Gutov
2021-09-04 19:55           ` Keybinding styles Daniel Fleischer
2021-09-04 20:52             ` Stefan Kangas
2021-09-05  7:17               ` tomas
2021-09-04 16:09         ` Bird
2021-09-04 20:48         ` Keybinding styles (was: [External] : Re: Gitlab Migration) Tim Cross
2021-09-05 19:03       ` John Yates
2021-09-06  4:34         ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-09-07  3:16         ` Richard Stallman
2021-09-07 12:02           ` John Yates
2021-09-08  3:29             ` Richard Stallman [this message]
2021-09-08 12:15               ` Keybinding styles André A. Gomes
2021-09-08 13:18                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-09-08 20:37                 ` John Yates
2021-09-09  5:39                   ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-09-15 13:40                     ` André A. Gomes
2021-09-15 14:26                       ` Stefan Kangas
2021-09-15 15:36                       ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-09-15 20:15                       ` Richard Stallman
2021-09-15 21:29                         ` Alexandre Garreau
2021-09-16  5:20                           ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-09-16  5:00                         ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-09-09  3:09                 ` Richard Stallman
2021-09-04 16:05     ` [External] : Re: Gitlab Migration Stefan Kangas
2021-09-04  2:20   ` Drew Adams
2021-09-04 13:14     ` Stefan Monnier
2021-09-04 14:58       ` Drew Adams
2021-09-04 16:10         ` Stefan Monnier
2021-09-04 16:40           ` Drew Adams
2021-09-05 19:27   ` John Yates
2021-09-07  3:16     ` Richard Stallman
2021-09-07 15:31       ` Barry Fishman
2021-09-09  3:07         ` Richard Stallman
2021-09-09 14:07           ` André A. Gomes

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