From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Richard Stallman Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Confused by y-or-n-p Date: Sun, 03 Jan 2021 01:06:18 -0500 Message-ID: References: <834kkcr1eo.fsf@gnu.org> <43b24209-fa65-0e26-7cbd-f99175a7ffd8@gmx.at> <87wnx7j5is.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <83im8qnyca.fsf@gnu.org> <83bleinmse.fsf@gnu.org> <56435592-d2d0-5fb6-977f-01e1931da835@gmx.at> <87k0t38g1z.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <83czyvkts6.fsf@gnu.org> <87bleetirr.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <87y2hhri3n.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <83pn2tkfg8.fsf@gnu.org> <871rf7ippu.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <83a6trg6mc.fsf@gnu.org> <87im8f951f.fsf@gnus.org> Reply-To: rms@gnu.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=Utf-8 Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="5065"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: rudalics@gmx.at, larsi@gnus.org, juri@linkov.net, eliz@gnu.org, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Drew Adams Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Sun Jan 03 07:07:34 2021 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1kvwY9-0001Eb-5i for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sun, 03 Jan 2021 07:07:33 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:47436 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kvwY8-0002Zp-8P for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sun, 03 Jan 2021 01:07:32 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:41372) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kvwX6-0001TJ-S4 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 03 Jan 2021 01:06:28 -0500 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:37887) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kvwX5-00069k-FW; Sun, 03 Jan 2021 01:06:28 -0500 Original-Received: from rms by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1kvwWw-0006cw-Py; Sun, 03 Jan 2021 01:06:20 -0500 In-Reply-To: (message from Drew Adams on Sat, 2 Jan 2021 09:06:55 -0800 (PST)) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:262350 Archived-At: [[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider ]]] [[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, ]]] [[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]] > > I think reversing the default would be less than optimal for two > > reasons: 1) The new behaviour is in Emacs 27, and flopping back to the > > Emacs 26 behaviour just sounds confusing > See - that's the problem with saying that Emacs > can just go ahead and change stuff, because we > can always backtrack later. Your response is stated in a somewhat flip tone, but its point is valid. As you've stated, there is a lot of resistance to changing back. The dynamic that results is this: * A few people decide to make a UI change, which many have not noticed. * Some people eventually notice it in master, or in a release, and maybe people start objecting. * At that point there is resistance to changing back. The end result is a tendency to make changes because a few people are in favor of them, and then it is hard to avoid them. Here is how I think it should work. * A few people decide to make a UI change, which many have not noticed. * Someone points out that such a change should be discussed on emacs-devel. So they do that, before installation. * If some are opposed, they install the feature with a variable to enable it, disabled by default. * Some time later -- it need not be soon -- poll the users and see who likes it _and why_. Maybe change the default. This will (1) eliminate the bad dynamic, (2) result in installing these features quickly but with a variable to enable, and (3) in a reasonable period adopt a default based on knowing who likes the feature. -- Dr Richard Stallman Chief GNUisance of the GNU Project (https://gnu.org) Founder, Free Software Foundation (https://fsf.org) Internet Hall-of-Famer (https://internethalloffame.org)