From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: ams@gnu.org (Alfred M. Szmidt) Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Proposal for an Emacs User Survey Date: Fri, 16 Oct 2020 14:16:21 -0400 Message-ID: References: <4a1188f8-9864-54c0-ae6f-5f32102d9757@gmx.com> <20201011073553.GA6784@odonien.localdomain> <20201011120840.GC2923@protected.rcdrun.com> <20201011125031.GC6784@odonien.localdomain> <20201012050418.GZ2923@protected.rcdrun.com> <20201013052736.GE31408@protected.rcdrun.com> <20201016130235.06218dae@argon> <20201016142436.187b8210@argon> <20201016152523.6fdfef65@argon> <6142a27f-c53b-35bf-1038-5f047395e868@yandex.ru> <20201016204531.77fab05b@argon> <725aa7c4-321f-4483-5a21-a148ff7f119b@yandex.ru> <20201016213312.603595fe@argon> Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="20490"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: mve1@runbox.com, emacs-devel@gnu.org, rms@gnu.org, bugs@gnu.support, dgutov@yandex.ru To: thibaut.verron@gmail.com Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Fri Oct 16 20:23:11 2020 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1kTUNj-0005FG-2o for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Fri, 16 Oct 2020 20:23:11 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:35686 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kTUNh-0006lJ-WF for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Fri, 16 Oct 2020 14:23:10 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:49950) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kTUH9-0004OO-Oa for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 16 Oct 2020 14:16:24 -0400 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:38976) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kTUH8-0007DC-R9; Fri, 16 Oct 2020 14:16:22 -0400 Original-Received: from ams by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1kTUH7-00083I-AJ; Fri, 16 Oct 2020 14:16:21 -0400 In-reply-to: (message from Thibaut Verron on Fri, 16 Oct 2020 19:55:01 +0200) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:257844 Archived-At: > So the difference is to say "please" and be polite when we ask them to > remove some packages? > > That is the differences between asking someone if they can do > something for you, and giving them an order ... so yes? Okay, with the slight difference that clearly they *can* do it: removing a package is a trivial action. The question is really whether they *want* to do it. Indeed. > If they say no, then they said no. Maybe one can convince them of > otherwise, but trying to force their hand would be unkind and unfair. Okay, as long as their saying no would not immediately make them as "bad" as the few packages they refuse to remove. There is are large difference between calling them, which I am guessing you mean those who maintain a project, and the actions, or the situation bad. > Just like it is unkind to try and force the GNU project to for example > recommend Melpa in Emacs since it would go against our principles. As far as I can tell, nobody in this conversation is asking for that. When the discussion was raised before about a non-GNU ELPA, that was exactly what being demanded. And it is what is being demanded by having an Emacs survey that mentions MELPA for example. Maybe demand is slightly strong, but several harsh words have been used in describing why the GNU project does not wish to do that.