From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Richard Stallman Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Proposal for an Emacs User Survey Date: Thu, 08 Oct 2020 23:35:12 -0400 Message-ID: References: <30addebe-999b-c1cc-a8d8-27aba3fac566@gmx.com> Reply-To: rms@gnu.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=Utf-8 Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="11510"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Adrien Brochard Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Fri Oct 09 05:36:53 2020 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1kQjDB-0002sC-Iy for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Fri, 09 Oct 2020 05:36:53 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:55030 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kQjDA-0004Vu-Ko for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Thu, 08 Oct 2020 23:36:52 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:55188) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kQjBk-0003RV-P2 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 08 Oct 2020 23:35:24 -0400 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:51383) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kQjBk-0006FA-5v; Thu, 08 Oct 2020 23:35:24 -0400 Original-Received: from rms by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1kQjBY-0008Ao-75; Thu, 08 Oct 2020 23:35:12 -0400 In-Reply-To: <30addebe-999b-c1cc-a8d8-27aba3fac566@gmx.com> (message from Adrien Brochard on Thu, 8 Oct 2020 11:30:28 -0400) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:257248 Archived-At: [[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider ]]] [[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, ]]] [[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]] I think using Google to communicate the users is bad because Google does so many bad things. We should not endorse it with our actions. In addition, most Google services require users to run nonfree software (Javascript code). If answering our questions requires the user to run some nonfree JS code, that would put us in a moral contradiction. Our goal is much more than just developing a successful editor; GNU Emacs is a GNU package, and the purpose of the GNU operating system is to win freedom for the users. We have to set an example of respecting and defending freedom in the methods we use, not just the program we are working on. See https://gnu.org/philosophy/free-sw.html and https://gnu.org/philosophy/free-software-even-more-important.html. I think Reddit is the wrong place to discuss this plan, for a similar reason. As I understand it, Reddit requires nonfree software to post on Reddit nowadays. Is that not so? The place to discuss the questions is here. Would you please post here your proposal for the questions to ask? Meanwhile, Here's the method I propose for inquiries (we used to call them "polls") about users' views about possible changes in well-known behaviors. * Make a file for the replies to go into. * Make a mailing address which drops all mail into the file. * Write a inquiry statement which describes the proposed change in sufficient detail that people can judge it, what kind of information we seek, and where to email the response. Include a deadline for replies at least 6 weeks in the future. If possible, we should tell users how to select various behaviors, so that they can state their opinions based on comparing actual experiences. End the inquiry statement with the following text. We do not seek "votes", but rather understanding. If you are for the change, please explain why. Would it help you directly? If so, in what scenarios? How often, and how strongly, would it benefit you? What would the benefit be? Or is it that you think it will improve Emacs, or speed Emacs development, by helping other users? How so? Please distinguish between what you know and what you predict. Likewise, if you are against the change, please explain why. Would it inconvenience you directly? If so, in what scenarios? How often, and how strongly, would it inconvenience you? What would the inconvenience be? Or is it that you think it will harm Emacs or Emacs development by inconveniencing others? How so? We invite you also to propose alterations in the proposed change that you think would improve it -- saying in what scenario that would be an improvement, and how so, etc. Please post the URL of this page in forums where it is appropriate, and resend it to Emacs users and mailing lists where you know people will be glad to receive it. It is crucial to urge people repeatedly to explain their positions because there is a strong tendency for people not to bother. * Put the inquiry statement in a web page under gnu.org/software/emacs. * Mail the inquiry statement info-gnu-emacs, help-gnu-emacs and emacs-tangents, with the URL of the web page _and_ the full text of the inquiry statement. Also post a note referring to the web page on reddit.com/r/emacs, and any other suitable places. Mail the URL to Sacha Chua . * Wait until at least two weeks after the deadline, then study and record the responses. Note down all interesting comments, since they are the most important information in the responses. * Do count how many people support each position that people support, but it would be a mistake to make the actual decision based simply on counting. A given change can affect one user very often, and affect another user only rarely, but they could both state a "strong preference". * We are not compelled to choose between "make that change" and "no change". The best outcome of the inquiry is that the responses show us how to design a way to please almost all users, almost all the time, and not displease any user very much. -- Dr Richard Stallman Chief GNUisance of the GNU Project (https://gnu.org) Founder, Free Software Foundation (https://fsf.org) Internet Hall-of-Famer (https://internethalloffame.org)