From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Richard Stallman Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Changes for emacs 28 Date: Fri, 11 Sep 2020 23:21:34 -0400 Message-ID: References: <87y2lkb6kb.fsf@gmail.com> <9A4FA038-CCFD-45DF-8B57-E348AFF951D9@gmail.com> <87sgbsb0eb.fsf@gmail.com> <87h7s6c31d.fsf@gmail.com> <87een96fpw.fsf@elephly.net> <87sgbo3oga.fsf@elephly.net> Reply-To: rms@gnu.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=Utf-8 Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="40913"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: ghe@sdf.org, casouri@gmail.com, emacs-devel@gnu.org, monnier@iro.umontreal.ca, tecosaur@gmail.com To: Ricardo Wurmus Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Sat Sep 12 05:22:28 2020 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1kGw7P-000AX2-KG for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sat, 12 Sep 2020 05:22:27 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:56884 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kGw7O-0006Sz-MM for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Fri, 11 Sep 2020 23:22:26 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:59312) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kGw6a-0005Ez-Hk for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 11 Sep 2020 23:21:36 -0400 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:54663) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kGw6Z-000159-SK; Fri, 11 Sep 2020 23:21:35 -0400 Original-Received: from rms by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1kGw6Y-0006XZ-4y; Fri, 11 Sep 2020 23:21:34 -0400 In-Reply-To: <87sgbo3oga.fsf@elephly.net> (message from Ricardo Wurmus on Fri, 11 Sep 2020 06:52:05 +0200) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:255256 Archived-At: [[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider ]]] [[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, ]]] [[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]] > This is certainly not meant to come across as harsh. I believe you. I am sorry if my message sounded like criticism of you. It is a > description of what I have observed dozens of times while watching > people who had initial enthusiasm to try out Emacs, only to realize that > it requires much more time to get started than they imagined. Now I understand. There was hostility in those words, but it was not your hostility. You were describing the reactions of various others, and what they were doing was venting their hostility. You portrayed that hostility and it came through and hit me in the face. What you observed is an important fact, and reporting it was potentially very useful. But please, in the future, avoid repeating the actual words with which they express hostility. That is not the part that can be helpful for Emacs development. > I agree with what others have pointed out earlier, namely that a lack of > pre-configuration of features such as automatic completion as you type > and more helpful matching and suggestion of inputs at dreaded empty > prompts would go a long way to reduce what is seen as an intimidating > amount of configuration that users would have to perform for features > that are readily available in most editors and IDEs (and of course > Emacs, once configured). I think we're convinced of this, in general. -- Dr Richard Stallman Chief GNUisance of the GNU Project (https://gnu.org) Founder, Free Software Foundation (https://fsf.org) Internet Hall-of-Famer (https://internethalloffame.org)