From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: ams@gnu.org (Alfred M. Szmidt) Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Changes for emacs 28 Date: Mon, 07 Sep 2020 01:57:04 -0400 Message-ID: References: <20200906133719.cu6yaldvenxubcqq.ref@Ergus> <20200906133719.cu6yaldvenxubcqq@Ergus> <20200906222008.qtpxy65f3updclgh@Ergus> Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="12548"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org, akrl@sdf.org To: Ergus Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Mon Sep 07 07:57:35 2020 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1kFA9n-0003A4-NB for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Mon, 07 Sep 2020 07:57:35 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:52098 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kFA9m-0001AT-Pe for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Mon, 07 Sep 2020 01:57:34 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:34320) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kFA9M-0000kn-1e for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 07 Sep 2020 01:57:08 -0400 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:35892) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kFA9J-0008S7-5x; Mon, 07 Sep 2020 01:57:05 -0400 Original-Received: from ams by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1kFA9I-0000kU-OL; Mon, 07 Sep 2020 01:57:04 -0400 In-reply-to: <20200906222008.qtpxy65f3updclgh@Ergus> (message from Ergus on Mon, 7 Sep 2020 00:20:08 +0200) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:254612 Archived-At: There will be never an agreement about changing defaults with long standing users. (I can't understand the strong feeling about that because some/most of the choices we have today were actually determined by historic/technological conditions more than user preferences) You are mixing up several different changes, which makes it difficult to explain why sometimes. Please take it one default at a time. Could we provide a simple command line option like "emacs -m" (or any letter not in use) which automatically loads a set of extra "experimental" defaults not suitable for older users?? If that mode is significantly different (e.g, CUA mode) from "standard" emacs then it will be difficult to point users to the documentation, or that the documentation will have to have many caveats. (the same as emacs -l modern.el but shorter) Like a different theme, line numbers, show-paren mode, and any other "modern" feature a newbie expects in a 2020 editor? Why are the things you suggest not suitable for experienced users, but suitable for new users? You do not explain why, and you come up with more suggestions in each new message. Before enabling, or disabling a feature one should have a reason to do so. I do not think that new users expect any of those things you have listed (show-paren-mode, display-line-numbers-mode or a different theme); from my experience when teaching new users they want just get stuff done. The first thing they tend to miss in my experience is getting navigation setup, or auto-completion since many editors come with that out of the box.