From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.ciao.gmane.io!not-for-mail From: Richard Stallman Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Imports / inclusion of s.el into Emacs Date: Sun, 10 May 2020 22:37:46 -0400 Message-ID: References: <0c88192c-3c33-46ed-95cb-b4c6928016e3@default> <550fa43f-30ef-14f3-dd19-dd97a985a04e@yandex.ru> <95bddb34-2c3f-eff5-220f-16b726d97a69@yandex.ru> Reply-To: rms@gnu.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=Utf-8 Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="ciao.gmane.io:159.69.161.202"; logging-data="104858"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: stefan@marxist.se, emacs-devel@gnu.org, joaotavora@gmail.com, pcr910303@icloud.com, eliz@gnu.org, drew.adams@oracle.com, monnier@iro.umontreal.ca To: Dmitry Gutov Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Mon May 11 04:39:17 2020 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1jXyLc-000RBj-W6 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Mon, 11 May 2020 04:39:16 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:56150 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jXyLb-00024M-TY for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sun, 10 May 2020 22:39:15 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:38494) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jXyKI-0008WS-Kh for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 10 May 2020 22:37:54 -0400 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:54535) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jXyKH-0008QO-Mw; Sun, 10 May 2020 22:37:53 -0400 Original-Received: from rms by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1jXyKA-0006x2-H6; Sun, 10 May 2020 22:37:47 -0400 In-Reply-To: <95bddb34-2c3f-eff5-220f-16b726d97a69@yandex.ru> (message from Dmitry Gutov on Sun, 10 May 2020 06:27:51 +0300) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:249739 Archived-At: [[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider ]]] [[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, ]]] [[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]] > > I'm concerned with goals I consider quite important, such as (1) > > defending copyleft, (2) supporting the rest of the GNU Project, and > > (3) the overall design of GNU Emacs. > Right. And I'll posit that including s.el into GNU ELPA, by itself, will > not hurt any of these three goals. It would mess up the naming in GNU Emacs, making two incongruous systems. AMS made it clear: > E.g., how is s-ends-with? more discoverable than string-suffix-p? When > Emacs Lisp custom is to use -p for predicates, and to use the words > suffix/prefix. To take a trivial example. ... > But we should view it from the lense of an Emacs Lisp hacker, where > discovering that one function for predicates is named with -p and some > with ? will be a big mess. Where sometimes one uses ends/starts > instead of suffix/prefix. In addition to that incongruity in naming, look at the way some would have us create it. Those who argue for incorporating s.el are saying that we should abandon judging Emacs design decisions, and blindly yield to the choices of a group of people that hardly talk with us, value other traditions more than those of Emacs and Lisp, and would like to paste the others over those two. -- Dr Richard Stallman Chief GNUisance of the GNU Project (https://gnu.org) Founder, Free Software Foundation (https://fsf.org) Internet Hall-of-Famer (https://internethalloffame.org)