From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.ciao.gmane.io!not-for-mail From: Richard Stallman Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Imports / inclusion of s.el into Emacs Date: Wed, 06 May 2020 22:45:10 -0400 Message-ID: References: <0c88192c-3c33-46ed-95cb-b4c6928016e3@default> Reply-To: rms@gnu.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=Utf-8 Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="ciao.gmane.io:159.69.161.202"; logging-data="93673"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: stefan@marxist.se, emacs-devel@gnu.org, joaotavora@gmail.com, pcr910303@icloud.com, dgutov@yandex.ru, eliz@gnu.org, drew.adams@oracle.com To: Stefan Monnier Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Thu May 07 04:47:07 2020 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1jWWZ0-000OFe-RG for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Thu, 07 May 2020 04:47:06 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:47436 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jWWYz-0003SO-Tn for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Wed, 06 May 2020 22:47:05 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:33046) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jWWXB-0001O2-O3 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 06 May 2020 22:45:13 -0400 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:41881) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jWWXB-00074z-CR; Wed, 06 May 2020 22:45:13 -0400 Original-Received: from rms by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1jWWX8-0002eR-PK; Wed, 06 May 2020 22:45:11 -0400 In-Reply-To: (message from Stefan Monnier on Wed, 06 May 2020 09:37:24 -0400) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:249141 Archived-At: [[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider ]]] [[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, ]]] [[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]] > I have the impression that you don't live in the same universe as mine: If your universe is limited to Emacs Lisp packages outside Emacs, then indeed I am living outside your universe. I never come in contact with them. If you would like me to know about those, how about telling me from time to time? > in my world, `s.el` is already used by the majority of new packages even If that is so, it is quite unfortunate. But things could get worse: we could include s.el in GNU ELPA, or even in Emacs itself, and thus spread its influence even wider. We could tell ourselves that this was merely an extension users could use or not. But that would be closing our eyes to the situation. For instance, people would complain that these "essential facilities that so many packages use" were not in the Emacs Lisp Reference Manual. They would demand that we give priority to the usual Clojure-based names and relegate the "irregular" 'concat' and 'format' to an appendix. If we did not comply, they would bombard us with verbal aggressions such as, "We are the majority, what universe are you in?" Likewise if we defined other Emacs Lisp functions with names starting with 'string-', departing from Clojure's spec, they would accuse us of risking a name conflict with future Clojure extensions. Rather than let that happen, we should say no at the outset. However, a small change would avoid these problems. We could rename the file to clostring.el and rename the functions to start with clo also: clostring-prepend, clostring-format, etc. This file would do the same job as s.el, but including it in GNU ELPA or in Emacs itself would not have the negative effects I described above. It would truly be simply an extension that programmers could use or not. There would be no reason not to include it. -- Dr Richard Stallman Chief GNUisance of the GNU Project (https://gnu.org) Founder, Free Software Foundation (https://fsf.org) Internet Hall-of-Famer (https://internethalloffame.org)